I've been reading and reading and reading this forum and have to wonder something.
Why is it that if you can have the same parts and the schematic for a trainwreck and can't build one, is why is there so much mystique about one?
By mystique I mean people who have one won't show gut shots of them.
They won't give the values of the specific parts.
Give my initial statement why won't people share this informaiton?
I ask this because it appears to be a bit a of paradox which has me puzzled.
The paradox being that given you can have the parts and schematic and can't build one, but they still won't share what information they have.
I know this is going to be a response that will be limited to actual owners if they even choose to respond.
Why so much mistery?
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
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skyboltone
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 pm
- Location: Sparks, NV, where nowhere looks like home.
Re: Why so much mistery?
Hi Doc:
Welcome to the forum. I must say that your question looks on the face of it as if you haven't spent 15 minutes reading the forum. There are gut shots ad nausium on these forums. You're not a troll are you? If you want to build a sucessful Express style amp, study the Francesca shots in the TW files section. It just doesn't get any better than that.
Now about tweeks. Every amp is different. The folks here with many builds under their belt will tend to shift some values in the signal chain based on the idiosyncracies of any given build. I've seen no tendency to hide these tweaks in the last several years that I've been active here. In fact, sometimes personal tweaks don't work out so good when the next guy tries them.
Start with an open mind and try to learn ampbuilding rather than looking to have something laid out for you all neat and tidy. That's the ticket, educate yourself on the process going on here. These circuits are absolutely not rocket science, but they aren't paint by numbers either. Some folks here don't build clones, they start with some proven schemes/layouts and modify them to suit their own needs/materials. Knowing how to do that is worth ten times the price of a simple set of instructions, even if such a set might result in an amp comparable to a $2500 botique build.
Oh, and if all you want is an amp, have one built for you buy one of the experts here. You'll save no money learning how to do it yourself.....but the experience gained will be well worth it over your music lifetime.
YMMV
Dan
Welcome to the forum. I must say that your question looks on the face of it as if you haven't spent 15 minutes reading the forum. There are gut shots ad nausium on these forums. You're not a troll are you? If you want to build a sucessful Express style amp, study the Francesca shots in the TW files section. It just doesn't get any better than that.
Now about tweeks. Every amp is different. The folks here with many builds under their belt will tend to shift some values in the signal chain based on the idiosyncracies of any given build. I've seen no tendency to hide these tweaks in the last several years that I've been active here. In fact, sometimes personal tweaks don't work out so good when the next guy tries them.
Start with an open mind and try to learn ampbuilding rather than looking to have something laid out for you all neat and tidy. That's the ticket, educate yourself on the process going on here. These circuits are absolutely not rocket science, but they aren't paint by numbers either. Some folks here don't build clones, they start with some proven schemes/layouts and modify them to suit their own needs/materials. Knowing how to do that is worth ten times the price of a simple set of instructions, even if such a set might result in an amp comparable to a $2500 botique build.
Oh, and if all you want is an amp, have one built for you buy one of the experts here. You'll save no money learning how to do it yourself.....but the experience gained will be well worth it over your music lifetime.
YMMV
Dan
The Last of the World's Great Human Beings
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Re: Why so much mistery?
I think you'll find that folks around here are very willing to share whatever they can. The problem is Train Wrecks were built by Ken Fisher and no one else has ever been able to voice them like he could.
Re: Why so much mistery?
Hi Doc, what the other guys said. 
You sound like you might have found some old wars from the beginning of the forum when there (apparently) *was* someone who refused to share.
You wouldn't be looking for info on the Rocket would you? 'cause that's where I found the old arguments.
You sound like you might have found some old wars from the beginning of the forum when there (apparently) *was* someone who refused to share.
You wouldn't be looking for info on the Rocket would you? 'cause that's where I found the old arguments.
Re: Why so much mistery?
From what I understand about the way Ken built each Wreck was that the were all different in various ways since they were tweaked for each customer. As well, I've built a number of different amps that are "the same" and they all seem to have their own character. There is enough variance in parts that even if the values are really close to the schematic, the small differences all add up. Then throw in the layout differences and you've got a plethora of reasons why amps will sound different.
As for mystique, less than 100 Wrecks were built and the exclusivity of them is maintained by those lucky enough to own one. That and Ken's family has gone psycho over protecting Ken's IP.
As for mystique, less than 100 Wrecks were built and the exclusivity of them is maintained by those lucky enough to own one. That and Ken's family has gone psycho over protecting Ken's IP.
Eardrums!!! We don't need no stinkin' eardrums!
Re: Why so much mistery?
skyboltone: I have looked at the files and photos of the Trainwrecks that are available.
I should mention that from what I’ve seen this isn’t really a forum for gaining the knowledge on how to create a Trainwreck, but rather a forum
for exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
As for my motives I’ve just given them to you: The exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
Bob-I: This is exactly what I was making reference to, "The problem is Train Wrecks were built by Ken Fisher and no one else has ever been able to voice them like he could.".
nickt: "You wouldn't be looking for info on the Rocket would you? 'cause that's where I found the old arguments."
No, I had just noticed post for things like the "Dirty Little Monster" and the 15 watt proto type.
I've yet to find any details on either of those.
My logic being that if one can look at where Ken was coming from you might be able to stumble on the logic of how
he got to the Express or Liverpool.
I'd like to thank everyone for their responses.
The last post seems to have hit the nail on the head.
dartanion: "the exclusivity of them is maintained by those lucky enough to own one.".
I guess I just don't understand the logic give that they have to be tuned and only Ken had the magic touch to do that properly.
I was just curious as it didn't add up for me. My post was not meant to upset any one or to rattle anyone's cage.
If, I have please accept my apology.
I should mention that from what I’ve seen this isn’t really a forum for gaining the knowledge on how to create a Trainwreck, but rather a forum
for exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
As for my motives I’ve just given them to you: The exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
Bob-I: This is exactly what I was making reference to, "The problem is Train Wrecks were built by Ken Fisher and no one else has ever been able to voice them like he could.".
nickt: "You wouldn't be looking for info on the Rocket would you? 'cause that's where I found the old arguments."
No, I had just noticed post for things like the "Dirty Little Monster" and the 15 watt proto type.
I've yet to find any details on either of those.
My logic being that if one can look at where Ken was coming from you might be able to stumble on the logic of how
he got to the Express or Liverpool.
I'd like to thank everyone for their responses.
The last post seems to have hit the nail on the head.
dartanion: "the exclusivity of them is maintained by those lucky enough to own one.".
I guess I just don't understand the logic give that they have to be tuned and only Ken had the magic touch to do that properly.
I was just curious as it didn't add up for me. My post was not meant to upset any one or to rattle anyone's cage.
If, I have please accept my apology.
Re: Why so much mistery?
My understanding is there was only one Dirty Little Monster built, and the owner doesn't hang out here. That's the reason there's not much info on it. There were very few Trainwrecks built, a lot of musicians don't hang out on the internet (Ken didn't hang out on forums like this and didn't have a computer for a long time, if it all IIRC), people who spend $10k on an amp don't necessarily want to post schematics of it if they believe that will hurt its value- etc, etc. There's a lot of reasons that there's not a lot of info about these amps.No, I had just noticed post for things like the "Dirty Little Monster" and the 15 watt proto type.
I've yet to find any details on either of those.
Re: Why so much mistery?
Hello Doug H,My understanding is there was only one Dirty Little Monster built, and the owner doesn't hang out here.
Oh, if you'd like to see the Dirty Little Monster it's right here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
From what you have told me it does make sense about not wanting to disclose information about the amp.people who spend $10k on an amp don't necessarily want to post schematics of it if they believe that will hurt its value
Thanks for the input.
You guys are just the best!
Re: Why so much mistery?
I think DocRocz is talking about people who own REAL WRECKS being secretive (not the very generous members of this forum)DocRocz wrote: ... people who have one won't show gut shots of them...
Although, obviously some have given us access 
Some owners probably think that, in respect to Ken/Ken's family, they shouldn't reveal his work. Some might be trying to protect the elite nature of the real owner's group. Glen Kuykendall (Geetarpicker) knew Ken, and, out of respect for his friend has not shown us gut shots, but has shared a wealth of information about his amp. He has given us great A/B comparisons with clones, shared his clone building experience, and produced a CD of music made with a real Ken Fisher amp Few owners of a REAL WRECK gig with them. Glen has, but built clones so he wouldn't have to. Brad paisley obviously gigs with his
From what I have read, Ken made amps for gigging. Most of us mortals will never have the chance to gig with a real Wreck. Clones are as close as we come, and for me, that's as close as I need. Mine may not sound as good as Ken's, but I have an amp I can USE, and it sounds pretty good Ken's genius notwithstanding, there are plenty of guys on this forum, e.g. Allyn, Dana, Richie, and others I apologize for not mentioning, who know this circuit inside out, upside down, can tweak it expertly, and have added modifications of their own. Allyn and Glen have made EXACT replicas of Wrecks, but no one I know of has tried to sell clones as REAL WRECKS
ALL GREAT AMPS HAVE BEEN CLONED
All of these great amps were built with the knowledge of previous amp circuits. None were built by a savant with no access to the history of electronics. Information should never disappear. If not form the efforts of this forum, Ken's knowledge might have died with him. The history of Ken Fisher and his genius might have also disappeared, but has been preserved at least in part by our discussions. This forum is our respect for Ken Fisher in action
Tim
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
In case the NSA is listening, KMA!
Re: Why so much mistery?
Hi Docrocz!
What details are you missing on the Liverpool 15 Watt?
Ciao
Martin
What details are you missing on the Liverpool 15 Watt?
Ciao
Martin
Re: Why so much mistery?
drhulsey: I knew there was just something I loved about that avatar.
I really do appreciate the comments and responses.
Sir you are dead on and I thank you for clarifying my question.
El_Martin: I'm good right now. I have lots to learn and just so much that I can go to the candy store with.
Thank you
I really do appreciate the comments and responses.
Sir you are dead on and I thank you for clarifying my question.
El_Martin: I'm good right now. I have lots to learn and just so much that I can go to the candy store with.
Thank you
Re: Why so much mistery?
Thanks for the link. I had not seen that thread. But I had heard about those amps a few years back from a friend of wreckboy's. Those are good stories.Hello Doug H,
Oh, if you'd like to see the Dirty Little Monster it's right here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
Last edited by Doug H on Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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skyboltone
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 pm
- Location: Sparks, NV, where nowhere looks like home.
Re: Why so much mistery?
Perfect. Wish I'd said that. Kinda like Zen and the Art of Guitar Amp Building. Sorry about the lecture. You've got it.DocRocz wrote:skyboltone: I have looked at the files and photos of the Trainwrecks that are available.
I should mention that from what I’ve seen this isn’t really a forum for gaining the knowledge on how to create a Trainwreck, but rather a forum
for exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
As for my motives I’ve just given them to you: The exploration and self discovery of the amp building process.
The Last of the World's Great Human Beings
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Seek immediate medical attention if you suddenly go either deaf or blind.
If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in five years time there would be a shortage of sand.
Re: Why so much mistery?
skyboltone:
As for my take on your comments, no harm, no foul.
Well, on the plus side now more people know a bit more about me and what I'm here for.Perfect. Wish I'd said that. Kinda like Zen and the Art of Guitar Amp Building. Sorry about the lecture. You've got it.
As for my take on your comments, no harm, no foul.