Fully Loaded Rocket

Express, Liverpool, Rocket, Dirty Little Monster, etc.

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Jackie Treehorn
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Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r1.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r2.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r3.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r4.JPG[/img]

[img:1600:1200]http://theinside.net/FLR/r5.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r6.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r7.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r8.JPG[/img]

[img:2304:1728]http://theinside.net/FLR/r9.JPG[/img]

This will somewhat answer the question as to how much can fit into the standard size chassis! It's two channels, top boost and EF86, with bias modulated tremolo. What's not installed yet are the three relays to switch channels, select both channels in parallel, and cascade the EF86 output into the top boost channel for a high gain overdrive.

I've just about got the overdrive network worked out, as the EF86 channel is pretty thick and needs a bit of eq. The relays are going between the input and the first volume control, so the wiring is tight and I need to tweak first. I fired it up the first time on Thursday, just the top boost. Friday I just wired both channels to the input and went to band practice. I can probably get some clips posted a bt later. The EF86 sounded pretty bad, just using the vox values at 266 volts. I needed to up the dropping resistor on the screen to 1.2 meg and lower the coupling cap to .0022 and it's still got a bigger bottom, low mid than the top boost.

I also went with much lower power supply filtering, 27 on the plates, 27 on the screens (biggest cap that would fit!), 20 off the screen for the EF86, 11 also off the screen for the PI, then on to 11 and 10 for the top boost tubes. I'm trying to get more of a vintage vox sound, I suppose. I'm also using different dropping resistors, although I haven't gotten into tweaking the voltages much, yet. 22k to the PI, 11k to the second gain stage, and I think 18k to the first stage.

There are two interesting aspects of the rocket I read somewhere on the internet.

The first is that Ken told someone the gain stages in the rocket preamp are biased in class A2. I think this is in the blue guitar threads. So, that would mean the first gain stage's grid was drawing current. Of course, how is that possible when it's just connected to the guitar. Anyway, in the course of building this phono preamp I was doing with big plate loads and low voltages, there was talk that when you run a 12ax7a at low voltages, say below 80 volts, electrons would begin to collect on the grid developing a small voltage. The voltage at which the current would happen varied from tube to tube, though. Their advice for the phono preamp naturally was to not run the tubes below 80 volts to avoid the distortion and lower impedance of that situation. However, it took a while, but I thought that must be the key to how Ken could get the preamp to something resembling class a2. That's also what I was going for in using bigger dropping resistors. When I was screwing around with voltages on the second stage with direct coupled cathode follower biased with a 56k, it seemed like just over 100 volts on the plate of v2 is where a voltage, negative, started developing on the grid. My v1 plate is around 74 volts and it's got a bigger negative voltage on the grid. We're talking 20-30 milivolts though. Not a big deal, but kind of interesting. That was a tungsram tube.

The other thing I remember reading, this has probably been discussed before, is that Ken would present the amp to the customer with an optional resistor which he would clip out if the customer liked the tone better without. That it sounded like "peeling away a layer of harmonics." It looked like there were some Rocket schematics floating around with two 1.5k's in parallel at the cathode of the PI. I did a bit of tweaking there and lower values, 820-910 did seem to bring out a harmonic centered around the fundamental. Struck me as bit too much, but it's an area that may need some more experimentation!
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KellyBass
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by KellyBass »

That's really cool! Nice Job!

Love those big, fat Solens! Very curious to hear some ef86 clips...
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FYL
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by FYL »

The first is that Ken told someone the gain stages in the rocket preamp are biased in class A2.
Plain Jane class A, or A1 if you prefer, just like the AC30TB KF more or less copied.
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PlinytheWelder
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by PlinytheWelder »

Wow, that looks great! I wonder how those Solens compare to the usual PS electrolytics?
Gary
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FYL
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by FYL »

I wonder how those Solens compare to the usual PS electrolytics?
The SCRs (the original manufacturer) are excellent MKP caps, with very low DCR and none of the problems associated with 'lytics. But I wouldn't use a 400V DC-rated cap for C1, which sees a substantial AC ripple: a 630V model is a must here.
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Thanks, for the kind words! I'm itching to do some unattenuated clips of the EF86 channel, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get to it today. I pulled together some moments from a jam we were working on Friday night, nothing really brilliant. The first minute is some slow bluesy stuff and comping on the top boost, then there's about 4 minutes of fuzz face noodling with some analog delay kicked in about 30 seconds into it. Then there's about a minute of some softer, more dynamic bluesy stuff. These were done with my airbrake on the 4th click [The airbrake does not work well on this amp! Even 1 click takes a ton of harmonics off the tone!] through a mesa half back 1x12 with an 90 watt black shadow. It's a really inappropriate speaker. It took a lot of treble to get a balanced tone. I need some Alnico!

Clip!
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Colossal
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Colossal »

Fantastic looking build Jackie, really, really nice. Great looking layout. Love the big polypropylene caps. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts as to whether you notice any improved clarity, tighter low end and just generally more breadth to the sound using the Solens versus electrolytics.

Are there a few Rikens in there? If so, how do you like them? Also, what are those studs/standoffs you used in the power section to float the grid resistors off the chassis? That looks very neat.
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Structo
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Structo »

I've wanted to try the Solens for years, just never had the guts to try them.

Interested in your thoughts on them and if you would use them again.

ANd, also what about the concern that FYL raised about the voltage rating?
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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M Fowler
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by M Fowler »

Jackie great job on this amp let us know how those caps stack up. :)
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

Colossal wrote:Fantastic looking build Jackie, really, really nice. Great looking layout. Love the big polypropylene caps. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts as to whether you notice any improved clarity, tighter low end and just generally more breadth to the sound using the Solens versus electrolytics.

Are there a few Rikens in there? If so, how do you like them? Also, what are those studs/standoffs you used in the power section to float the grid resistors off the chassis? That looks very neat.
Thanks so much for your comments. I've used the Solens in a couple other amps, too. Generally, I'm kind of shooting for an underfiltered type tone with them, but they seem to hold the low end together pretty well. It's hard to say the definite difference over electrolytics since I never swapped them out. I think they're actually cheaper than Mallory TC's.

Yes, Rikens, too in some spots. They're sold out in a lot of values, though. I also tried the Takman carbon films in some spots and regular carbon comps which I like quite a bit. The Rikens are almost as puffy sounding as a carbon comp, but they're a bit clearer.

These are the terminals I used for the grid resistors,
http://angela.com/newoldstock60sbrown72 ... posts.aspx If you stick a ground lug under them, it makes a convenient place to connect the shield, too, if you're into that kind of thing...
Structo wrote:I've wanted to try the Solens for years, just never had the guts to try them.

Interested in your thoughts on them and if you would use them again.

ANd, also what about the concern that FYL raised about the voltage rating?
Well, I'll try to get some better clips up in a couple days or so. I don't know that there's a huge difference with the Solens because I've never done a direct comparison. People say they give a bit of extra bloom and I would say they impart a taut bass.

I'm pretty comfortable with a 400 volt cap on a 300 volt node. At the full 250ma load the transformer is capable of, that would be 77 volts peak to peak ripple, which is a lot. There's some prominent ghosting, but that was the intent.
M Fowler wrote:Jackie great job on this amp let us know how those caps stack up. :)
Absolutely! Thanks, Mark.
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FYL
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by FYL »

I'm pretty comfortable with a 400 volt cap on a 300 volt node. At the full 250ma load the transformer is capable of, that would be 77 volts peak to peak ripple, which is a lot.
SCR MKP caps are only *DC* rated. You should derate them by at least 50% when used with any significant AC, unless you want them to overheat, leak and arc (not necessarily in that order).
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

These are Solen PB rated at 250 volt ac. They are fine. I've been running a 10 mf behind a 5Y3 at similar voltages in another amp with no problems.
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FYL
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by FYL »

These are Solen PB rated at 250 volt ac. They are fine. I've been running a 10 mf behind a 5Y3 at similar voltages in another amp with no problems.
SCR caps are very well built and can withstand a lot of abuse, but you should use suitably rated parts. A 400V DC-rated cap used on 380V pulsed DC isn't what I call suitable. But who am I to argue?
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rawnster
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by rawnster »

Nice work! Hey Jackie, did you use Kimber TCSS Hookup Wire for this build? I read another thread where you touted it highly.
Jackie Treehorn
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Re: Fully Loaded Rocket

Post by Jackie Treehorn »

In a worst case scenario, pulling 250ma, no transformer sag, no voltage loss through the rectifier, 20-25 volt margin. Look at the Express with 80 mf at the same current draw, around 26 volts of ripple on a 400 volt node with a 450 volt cap. I do appreciate the concern, though! Overrating is better, definitely. In this situation, I went with adequate; we'll see how it goes. :D
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