Lower watt output TWs?

[surfsup]

I am presently building my first amp and want to start planning my next one. The TW amps sound pretty good. Was wondering if there are any lower wattage schematics (15W or less)?

The dumbles also sound good so if there's a low wattage dumble I'd be interested in studying that, as well.

[Ken Moon]

Here's one approach to a low-powered Expressish amp, using 6SN7GTBs for the power tubes (about 2 watts):

http://ax84.com/4-4-0.html

[Macshaft]

You could try something with 6AQ5`s

Cam

[surfsup]

ken thanks. I actually d'l-d the schematic/etc for that from ax84 (I'm working on the P1x HO right now) and planned to review it later. I didn't realize it was a TW-esque amp.

Macshaft, I'm not familiar with that tube designation and will look into that thanks.

[ampgeek]

Looks like RJ has been looking into a Wreck'ish build using 6AQ5's

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11528

Potential for collaboration maybe?

Cheers,
Dave O.

[RJ Guitars]

Yeah I have had a lifelong quest looking for the little amp that sounds like the big amp. I started looking at Trainwreck amps way back because I wanted to know the source of great tone then hopefully apply that to smaller output packages. I've had some success but to a great extent louder has a lot of advantages in giving us what our ears crave.

I have the thread going on the scaled down Liverpool mentioned earlier and I've built iterations of the sub-miniature (pencil) tube Rockets. There are so many tube options that are yet to be tried.

Also consider that that voltage scaling works pretty well if you have an amp that already works well but is just too loud. There are some physics problems that show up when you start operating tubes at potentials below 100v, but for the most part that's below the range you need for most guitar amps anyway. This doesn't help if you are trying to bring the physical size and the costs down but it does give you a lot of versatility.

I will collaborate with basically anybody that wants to experiment... so much to learn and so little time!

rj

[keewee]

UR2, Dana Hall, makes a dynamite sounding "2 Hole" Liverpool I think they power out at 15 to 18 watts, still way loud but the tone is still there. On my rocket I have experimented between 2 and 4 output tubes since it is so easy to do but seems to loose to mojo- chime with just 2 output tubes. If you take your time and go through this site you will find a wealth of information from people seeking the "holy grail" tone, beware it is addicting!!!

[RJ Guitars]

KeeWee makes a good point. 15 watts really doesn't sound like a lot less volume to your ears than a 30 watt amp. Several of us have added the half power switch to the Rocket builds. It makes a subtle difference in volume and has a different sound to it but it's still pretty loud.

I have found the challenge is to make amps in the sub 5 watt category that sound like smaller versions of bigger amps. In truth, the volume levels and what your ears perceive as the same balance of tones does not scale very well from loud to not so loud.

rj

[surfsup]

RJ, I would love to collaborate except I'm totally new to building amps so it would be more of a one way street if you know what I mean. I'd still be interested though if you need a sidekick in small amp building! I'm presently working on my first build and reverse-engineering existing schematics. At my place along the amp life-line, this is still a large undertaking. I am planning to focus on small output amps though so if you have some ideas you'd like someone ELSE to try that you don't think would be a waste of time/$, I'm all game (after I get this amp done of course).

[UR12]

UR2, Dana Hall, makes a dynamite sounding "2 Hole" Liverpool I think they power out at 15 to 18 watts, still way loud but the tone is still there.

Mine runs 15 watts and has a 10.5k OT. It also has a built in
VVR that will let you go down go bedroom levels. The two holers
are great sounding amps if you do your homework
and do it right.

[fishy]

The dumbles also sound good so if there's a low wattage dumble I'd be interested in studying that, as well.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... light=ax84

[bcmatt]

So, is the key for you the lesser weight and expense of smaller transformers that you prefer, or is just lesser volume that you are after?

I used to recommend to everyone I met that 15-18 watt amps were the most ideal volume-wise. Of course, this was before Dana came up with his VVR (and VVR2 and VVR3).
I use it in all my main amps and love it. So, now I've changed my tune and consider 30-50 watt amps as the ideal size just because they can still take VVR3 but can also be opened up to really kick some bum once in a while when you really feel the need.
I also like the whole tube-saving aspect involved. With the VVR, the power tubes are really run much cooler most of the time and their lives are really extended. Still waiting to see if they will EVER need new tubes...

So, unless you are desperate to save a few pounds or make a combo, I'd go for a regular Express or Liverpool with this:
http://www.Hallamplification.com/main.html#2,2

[surfsup]

So, is the key for you the lesser weight and expense of smaller transformers that you prefer, or is just lesser volume that you are after?

More about volume. I'd like something that sounds good at BR levels to maybe 2-3 times bedroom levels. I didn't know about this VVR3 circuit. So do you need one of those circuits for each tube I'm assuming? Or just the output tube(s) leaving the preamp tubes alone?

[bcmatt]

So, is the key for you the lesser weight and expense of smaller transformers that you prefer, or is just lesser volume that you are after?

More about volume. I'd like something that sounds good at BR levels to maybe 2-3 times bedroom levels. I didn't know about this VVR3 circuit. So do you need one of those circuits for each tube I'm assuming? Or just the output tube(s) leaving the preamp tubes alone?

It's just one unit for the amp. You choose whether you want to scale the whole amp or just the power section. For Trainwreck type circuits it is best to scale the whole amp (which is the simplest install as well). UR12 on this forum is the guy that designed it. I'm just a big fan of his work.

[surfsup]

I'm a fan of all your guys' work! I'll check that out. 50w is still a bit too much. Maybe a 15w isn't out of the question. I want it more for studio work/recording...thank to all for the tips on amps to check out.