Before I buy alnicos

[yalesmith]

I have noticed that as I turn up my Liverpool, express or rocket clone I notice the amp starts to sound trebly and extremely harsh. I have 3 cabs, a mesa 4x12 loaded with black shadow, a Dr. Z 2x12 loaded with a v30 and G12H anniversary and another 2 x12 cab loade3d with an eminence Wizard and Tonka. I have heard that alnico's compress at higher volumes and and such get less harsh. I am thinking about making the leap and getting a pair of alnico's...let me know if this makes any sense.

Thanks

[geetarpicker]

I prefer the G12M 25 watters (original 60s/early 70s version) much more than the G12H for exactly the same reason you describe. The Scumback M75 is a nice modern recreation of the old G12M. As much as the G12H have a nice tight sound for rhythm, the old G12Ms (though being a smaller magnet speaker) actually seem a little darker and less peaky in the upper mids. Even though Alnico blues can compress nicely they really don't have much lows and would probably be even brighter than you G12Hs. That said, an Alnico gold might be worth a try but that is a very expensive option for a new speaker.

[sliberty]

Also, remember that Celestion Alnico Blues are 15 watt speakers. So a pair is marginal at best for Trainwreck amps which are in and around that 30 watt mark. It would not be hard to push them hard enough to blow them.

[ampmike]

I just tried the Alnico blue and a greenback.Bob S told me to try it.In a maple cab with a voxy 18 its a perfect match.I really cant say much eles but 2 together may have been to much highs.This was a perfect combination in this situation.I should try the wrecks through this cab just have not yet.I did pay attention to the low watts, so far real good with an 18 watt amp.Mike

[Scumback Speakers]

I've tried lots of speakers with my TW clones (Express & Liverpool), plus my Koncorde clone. IMO they all do well with M series speakers (my M75, old pre rola G12M's, etc) but have too much high end for the heavy magnet speakers like the G12H30/V30/Mesa C90, etc.

Using the heavy magnet series speakers (50 oz or larger ceramic magnet models) the treble response is a little shrill and ice picky.

As for Alnico model speakers, they seem to do better with the Liverpool, but not as well with the Express.

Again, this is just my opinion based on the old Celestions, and the recreations I make. YMMV.

[Cantplay]

In general, alnico magnets are weaker magnets than the ceramic.

There is something that happens to the sound when the coil overpowers the force of a weak magnet(assuming it doesn't fry first) I call it saturation, but its probably not the right technical speaker term.

Of the vintage alnicos I've had rebuilt, I like the ones with the really small magnets rebuilt with as much voice coil as will fit.

I'm also really fond of hemp cones. A bit more smooth mid, and not as much 'cry' on bends past 12th fret.

John

[ampmike]

The scumbacks sound great!!I want to make myself a nice cab and get two of the m series.I cant imagine you would need anything else for my wreck builds.Nice website too!!!Cant wait to get some,Mikey

[yalesmith]

I have been eying those scumbacks for sometime now, but for my ceriatone AFD cab though. hmmm ....I was looking at WGS green beret as well as the high powered versions....but I think those will get harsh as well....my thought about volume increase and alnilcos geting compressed and warmer is correct?

Thanks

[geetarpicker]

More compressed yes, but the blues start out quite bright and they are efficient. I do recall Ken telling me two Alnico blue Celestions were safe with a Liverpool but that an Express would probably blow up a pair. You might try one Celestion Gold as they are rated at 50 watts each, and have a little less highs and more bass than the blues. Most likely with the 15 watt blues you would need a 4x12 of them to handle an Express which would be costly. I do recall trying a set of blues in my '68 basket weave once, and they were definately brighter and actually louder (not quieter) than my old vintage G12M 25s in the same cab.

[redshark]

2 blues or 1 gold could be fine if the express is tubed with 6V6's
Seems to me that when the express is tubed with EL34's it changes its character in a way that sounds better with a 4x12 with G12M's. G12H's could be fine as long as they are 55hz bass cone.

[Roe]

try a slightly darker alnico speaker with the rocket and liverpool. e.g. scumnico, weber blue bell 30+ w or silver bell

[lions den]

I'm currently using a M75-65 Watter, and a M75LHDC-65 Watter. One for the dry amp and one for wet. The wet side is not so critical on speaker choice but having these available as options seem to work well so I run the Express dry to the M75, Liverpool dry to the M75LHDC, pretty flexible.
sean

[gearhead]

Fave setup for my Express is a 4x12 loaded with Eminence Governors. Go figure.

[Mark]

I seem to remember Komet were using a 4 X 12'' which consisted of two Celestion Blues and two H30's. I seem to remember the 18 watt guys liked this combination too.

Jim do think the pre-Rola Greenback is the only real option with these amps?

I imagine the Fane speakers could be another option again the high end is the critical factor.

[Scumback Speakers]

I seem to remember Komet were using a 4 X 12'' which consisted of two Celestion Blues and two H30's. I seem to remember the 18 watt guys liked this combination too.

Jim do think the pre-Rola Greenback is the only real option with these amps?

I imagine the Fane speakers could be another option again the high end is the critical factor.

Mark, Komet used four G12H30 T1281 55hz speakers with original Pulsonic 102 014 cones in their clips.

Pre-rolas are wonderful, no doubt, but expensive. If you can afford it, and find good ones, buy them. Most can't cost justify $300-500 per speaker, though, and that's why the M75's are so popular with these amps.

No experience with FANE, but they've contacted me to be a dealer. Just waiting on them to supply samples.