Express Clone "Tarryn" demo

[Reeltarded]

All recordings sound like shit, btw. I hear so many takes on a mic aimed at a thing that I don't even hear recordings anymore.

This thread is all poopy now. It made me have a conversation about OT primary though, and I remembered something I heard two years ago. Another terrible recording, but this time of a legendary tone no one could argue with.

[M Fowler]

Geez Bill (Garlin) being a professional I would think you would act more professional, just saying

Mark

[garlin]

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[Colossal]

I don't have chops, I play real simple, I grew up playing blues. I agree with you I was assuming way too much. Now that I think about it, there must be older players like me on ampgarage who hear things more like I do. I am really complaining about the growing evolution of rave praise for mediocrity that is never criticized, I understand not wanting to criticize (you pay a price) but I am willing to criticize (it's not personal) if I believe the criteria for Trainwreck tone (I own two originals) is being damaged. People are raving about Trainwreck clones when the sound is a far,far cry from what anything using the name Trainwreck should be. I say first find out what one is supposed to sound like. Be open to be told that it needs work when someone who knows what they should sound like suggests such a thing. I know that sounds like I think I'm superior. There's thousands of kids on youtube that play way better then me. But I have a valid point to make and I know I can back up my point with more than just words. I wish everyone had to post examples of themselves playing so we'd know who's coming from where. At least there is the opportunity to do so. I would take it. Know this - if all the people playing guitar and building Trainwreck clones could lower the criteria so their amp and their playing was "the shit!' - they'd do it and we'd all be worse off.
Garlin

Now that is a good honest comment, constructive, and point taken. I do agree completely that music is dying at the hands of pop culture and even at 43, I feel my age by saying "these kids today..." and going off on some rant. I can't even listen to the radio, save for Classic Rock, as the homogeneous dreck that passes for rock and metal today is abysmal. Good music is out there though, you just have to dig for it as it's certainly not on the radio.

I would also agree that the Trainwreck pedigree should be protected in terms of the true qualities that make the sound unique. So yeah, I think it's important not to reward mediocrity with false praise but I think that if a guy builds the exact circuit, comes reasonably close on good quality tubes and transformers, it's not rocket science to nail the tone. These are not complicated amplifiers although they are devilishly subtle to get totally right. Transformers age and with time, there is unmistakeable mellowing of tone so I would posit that clones of the TW circuits, especially new ones, will not have undergone some of the physical changes that only time can create. But this is not to suggest that these cloned amps don't have those intrinsic properties (clean to mean, harmonic overtones, blossoming into feedback).

I might be dead wrong about this, but I have a doubt that a freshly minted Ken Fischer Trainwreck hot off the New Jersey bench sounded the same as it does now. But that might not be true because KF had access to things that truly are not made the way they used to and he was said to tweak and roll until he got it right to his ear and for his client. But I'm sure the mellowing effect of time is very much part of the reason these originals are so unique. I believe this because I have had the opportunity to revisit amps which I built for players several years ago and was quite surprised at just how much the tone had changed (very much for the better) when nothing else in the amp had. This can only be the effect of hundreds of hours on the amp.

[M Fowler]

I think if a guy shop hard and long enough he could come up with some vintage iron from some kind of audio device along with old resistors and caps one could build a good TW tone amp.

Make sure your OT has the additional windings etc.

Mark

[shaunf]

How old are you guys?
I'm going to give a bit of a different perspective and I know it will be irrelevant because this is a club for less experienced players (not a criticism) and I am not wanted (I assume) unless I agree with all of you.
This is an unmusical, buzzy distortion. Why do I say this? Not to be superior - listen to "Don't You Run" by "Novella" - solo by Derek Jan (Ferwada) - THAT's what an Express is supposed to sound like. I know, none of you guys are professional guita players but just try this idea on - see if it you hear what I'm talking about.
Garlin

Dear Garlin,

Thank you for your comments. To answer your question, I am 35 years old, but it's only 2 months till my 36th birthday, and I'm really hoping that with this imminent increase in my age, that I will move one step closer to being able to recognise tonal nirvana when I hear it. If I were you though, currently being that magical number "59" and all, I'd stop counting from next year. From what I hear, things go really pear-shaped from '61 onwards as far as tone is concerned.

In your initial response, there are several points of poor comprehension and misunderstanding, that I attribute directly to your advanced age, and the imminent onset of senility, that I would however like to clarify.

I must apologise for the fact that, in my youthful enthusiasm when making my initial post, I very selfishly never took into account those that were born BC (Before Computers), and as such you may not have encountered nor understood certain terms that the rest of us take for granted. Let me begin:

1.) "Quick and Dirty" - Whilst this is a phrase usually associated with describing my encounters with the opposite sex, in this case it refers to the fact that I plonked down the only device capable of making a recording that I had in my possession, in front of the amp, hit the record button and uploaded it. The fact that I was very clear about the crude manner in which it was recorded, led me to believe that those listening to it would understand and take this into account when listening to it, and that it would simply provide the listener with at least some idea of what it sounds like and how it behaves in real life.

2.) iPad - This new-fangled invention is similar to those stone tablets you used to carve your homework on when you were at school, however it has been updated slightly to include an on-board microphone typically designed for a person to speak into, and is sufficient to provide reasonable sound quality when recording a typical human being's voice when speaking at normal volume. It's really not much good at recording a roaring guitar amp, but it's all I had, and since I wasn't aware that I was entering myself into a "Best tone" competition with you, I figured it was better than nothing.

3.) Garageband - do I need to say more? I thought a "Garage Band" was a synonym for poor tone?

4.) Celestion G12T75 - a speaker that is a bit like the human digestive system. No matter what you put in one end, poo comes out the other end. Unfortunately since you already told us categorically that Celestion G12H Greenbacks are too bright for an Express amp, I never bothered to plug into my '68 Marshall 1982 cab running these speakers.

In light of the above, all of which were clearly prefixed in my original post, you will note that nowhere in my post did I profess my recorded clip to be an example of "Good Tone". The intention of posting the clip was merely done to give these great guys on this forum, who helped me so much during my build, some feedback, and hopefully a glimpse into how the amp is performing, despite the shortcomings of the rest of my rig as well as my only available recording method. Despite possibly being categorised as one of "the youth of today", I value good manners, and believe that when one seeks assistance or advice, that one should at least have the decency to provide some sort of follow-up feedback, instead of just disappearing into cyberspace, without so much as a "Thanks!".

I am flattered that you even seek to mention my humble "recording" in the same sentence as Novella. By the way, if you're going to name drop, its Derek Ferwerda, not Ferwada. Perhaps you should have spent more time on your abc's and less time noodling the Blues when you were younger? Sorry to criticise, it's not personal, but as far as I am concerned, poor spelling is a sign of poor intellect.

Anyway, I'm digressing. That Novella album sounds wonderful! I was unaware that it was also recorded in Derek Ferwerda's study, using just a single crappy "made in China" consumer electronics device. I'm even more impressed with the tone on that album now that I know it wasn't recorded in a dedicated studio environment, using hundreds of thousands of dollars’ worth of professional studio equipment.

I realise that you have posted a clip a few pages back, but in all honesty I can't hear the "Raw" unprocessed tone of the amp in that recording. All I hear is a ton of delay and somewhere there is this amp under it all.

As the self-appointed Custodian of "Good Tone", and not one, but two original Trainwrecks (Well done buddy!) I have a favour to ask of you, purely in the interests of science:
Please would you take whatever consumer electronics device you may have handy, that happens to have a built in microphone. Whatever device you choose, it must not be purpose designed for recording guitar amplifiers. Stick it a metre in front of your best sounding speaker cab, and let rip with one of those original Trainwrecks of yours. Do not apply any form of effects or post processing and then post the results for us all to take a listen to. This shouldn't be too burdensome, since my recording only took all of 15 minutes to record, upload to Soundcloud and share on the forum.

Yours in buzzy, unmusical tone,

Shaun
Amateur guitarist with a day job, and crappy amp builder

[Reeltarded]

-clapping-

Love that amp, Shaun. It's literally inspirational. I am going to build an amp in some whole other way based on what I heard. Take that!

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Well stated, Shaun!

I will say this; I've been on this forum for the last five months. Frankly, I am surprised by the level of civility and harmony amongst the members here. This is truly an educational and inspirational place to hang out.

To Bill, I will say this: It is possible to achieve greatness in the absence of conceit and arrogance.

[garlin]

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[Reeltarded]

lmao you are a complete dick. No doubt.

[shaunf]

Garlin, are you having us on or are you really this obtuse?

Why is it that everyone else here is able to differentiate between a quick, spur of the moment, convenient but pretty poor quality clip, and a full on, studio quality amp showcase? You're trying to judge my "happy snap" against a landscape centre spread inside National Geographic. The fact that you are unable to make this distinction says more about you than it does about the quality of my clip.

My clip was never intended as a tone showcase, but merely a quick tip of the cap to the guys here, to show that my amp is working well. In real life, standing in front of it, I am pleased with the tone. On the recording it does sound buzzy, but that's to be expected when one is using a device like I happened to be using. I'd love to humor you by posting studio quality demos of my amp, but I don't have the necessary equipment. Also, if you paid a little more attention in between your frothing at the mouth, you might notice my location. There isn't exactly an Abbey Road or Rumbo studios on every corner, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, watching you is becoming a bit like watching a train wreck, if you will excuse the pun, so I'm going to bow out of this conversation now, suffice to say that should you feel the need to continue to berate me, my amp, my recording, my generation or whatever else makes you feel important or better about yourself, please continue to put the boot in and don't stop on my account.

Your friend,
Buzz Brainwreck