Do you mean you got a grey Stancor? If you did, score! I'm with you on Heyboer. I recently had them make me a custom one off to my specs and it didn't cost much more than a bill. Even got it in M6 for a few dollars more, just for the hell of it. Tell me a little more about the amp I'm hearing in that clip, if you would, please.
David
Thanks, David. No, it's a Pacific transformer, 250-275-300 at 250ma, with 6.3 volt and 5 volt taps. I'm not sure it was ever used in a real wreck, as it looks a bit smaller than the power transformers in the pictures. I posted about it before, and I think RJ asked Pacific about the part number and they confirmed it was one of theirs.
Heyboer is great with the custom iron! I love their service and their products and am unconvinced that Ken wouldn't have used their iron if he was able to continue building amps. I think he switched to Heyboer around the time they did the Climax. But, that's pure speculation, of course.
That amp is basically a Rocket with less filtering, an EF86 channel, and tremolo. It's got three relays in it and a footswitch to turn on the tremolo, switch channels, put both channels in parallel, and another to cascade the EF86 into the top boost for a high gain sound. I did a thread on it, http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11925
Very cool amp and nice score on that Pacific, Jackie. I pretty much have everything I'm using with my new Heyboer iron and can't wait to get on that. Was thinking about it last night and trying to imagine the outcome. Might use my other Dynaco A470 I got from a pair on Fleabay. Hoping this thing comes out screamin, in a good way.
selloutrr wrote:The grey were a small batch run of ~ 500 they were sent over the pond for hifi. The products they were used in are $$$$$$$ amounts of money.
im just curious, what does a grey counterfeit 3801 look like? and how would you know its a fake? seems like a odd thing to fake
Allynmey wrote:I've also built a good number of TW's with 3801's (both black and silver). The Pacific's I have are as good if not better than a lot of originals. Much more consistent too!:
This is a good point. I've had over a dozen of the old Stancor 3801's and 3 of the them sounded great, 4 sounded real good and I ended up selling the rest on ebay. I personally like my Heyboer's better than the Pacific's but that's just a matter of taste. I don't think they're any better, I just prefer the sound.
Allynmey wrote:I've also built a good number of TW's with 3801's (both black and silver). The Pacific's I have are as good if not better than a lot of originals. Much more consistent too!:
This is a good point. I've had over a dozen of the old Stancor 3801's and 3 of the them sounded great, 4 sounded real good and I ended up selling the rest on ebay. I personally like my Heyboer's better than the Pacific's but that's just a matter of taste. I don't think they're any better, I just prefer the sound.
+1 for Heyboer. Great service and great prices. Ken allegedly said that Heyboers were microscopically perfect and I'll see for myself in a few days.
Ever since I started messing with Express builds I have wanted to have an original Stancor A-3801 to compare it to the modern output trannies we are using. I traded up an amp with one of the black ones in it and thought I had the real deal for a while... although I have not used it in an amp yet. Then this thread came out and I read about the grey ones as well... so I I found myself one of the grey endbell A-3801 output transformers and spent far to much to win it in an EBAY auction.
The guy selling this on EBAY (probably one of our own here) makes the claim that it sounded better (in an Express clone) than a Pacific that he later replaced it with... that doesn't exactly match up with the general consensus of things in this thread but adds another opinion to the mix...
Does anybody think there is any sonic difference between the black ones and the gray ones or is it just cosmetic?
selloutrr wrote:Ok they made several versions
Original model with ID tag. Black cloth leads:
NOS $100. Used w/long leads $85. Short leads $50
Most common model black with bell cover stamp:
NOS $175. Used $150 short leads $100
Grey bell covers last production model
NOS $200. Used $175 short leads $125
The grey bell was the OEM TW and built on machinery subcontracted by Stancor with Teflon leads.
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I think the prices you quote are low, and self serving for the person who originally posted them since he was gathering these parts for his own fleet of builds.
I also have one for sale, so you might see my post in the same light.
John
Last edited by Cantplay on Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Do not limit yourself to what others think is reasonable or possible.
I am the guy selling the grey one now.
I collected 4 3801 this past year when collecting parts to build my own express and rocket .
I own a JM express and experimented with aligator clipping the 3801 in it for a time. I find the. 3801 to be superior in sound- whether it is the age, or quality of iron, I cant say, but it is DIFFERENT and i think it is night/day.
About a month ago, a beat to hell Grey 3801 sold for over 400 on ebay in a no reserve auction... It was the first time i saw one on ebay and it was ROUGH
So i figure mine is worth more.
Now as for black vs grey? Of the 4 i currently own, the stack is visibly different from ot to ot, the 2 grey ones are not identical nor are the black ones. One grey and one black look identical other than end bell cover and leads being plastic on grey ones. One grey end bell has "Stancor logo and A3801" embossed, other does not...
As for sound, they are all almost identical to my ears with one exception. TThe oldest of my bunch had been installed in an old Gibson ga10 clone since the 60s and now is in my express clone. It was rusty and looked horrible. To me, it has the same indescribable difference between a new pickup and an old paf. I think the grey ones will always be more because they are newer and that which Ken used but they didn't become a "super ot" of superior quality the moment stancor switched from black to grey.
As mentioned, i have 4, two are reserved for my amps- i might sell the others or build amps i intend to sell with the other two i have.
I haven't run across any of these Stancor transformers but when I do I'll use some and sell the others.
If I had an original TW in which I some how ruined the OT, paying $600 for the perfect replacement would seem pretty cheap to get it back into playing condition.
The grey Trainwreck Express and Liverpool Stancors do sound different than the Pacifics. Some players prefer them..slightly more lower mids, a little less upper freq stuff. Ken said most guys preferred the Pacifics when he went to them, but I have a slight preference for the old Stancor sound. It would be interesting to get a vote of different players playing each type side by side.
aaronz28 wrote: ... About a month ago, a beat to hell Grey 3801 sold for over 400 on ebay in a no reserve auction...
Yes that was me... it is the only grey one I'd seen and I decided to bite the bullet. More than I would pay again but I really wanted to hear one for myself.
Mark wrote:What does it sound like and how does it compare to the transformers you've used?
... I still want to hear one for myself - I am hoping to make some sort of test build that will allow me to put the output tranny in as a module with quick connects. Then I can really get a direct comparison with the transformer as the variable. Not gonna happen soon but I also don't need $400 transformers sitting on a shelf collecting more dust so I need to give some priority. James Healey did something like this at one point and provided me some great feedback on the 5.2K tap ionan Edcor output in an Express build.
