A3801 value?

[aaronz28]

i compared the 3801 to the Pacific in my Express - by using alligator clips - no it was not safe, nor scientific, nor was the Stancor transformer bolted to the chassis -
what i discovered was that the 3801 was smoother and more relaxed, yet seemed to deliver a tad more gain at a lower volume level - not sure if that was how it was loading the el34s or what - but it made me realize that in my amps, I can justify the added cost of an old OT as it was preferable to my ears.

Thanks

[HeeBGB]

here 'tis


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stancor-A3801-O ... 4acbdabfd7

[Jackie Treehorn]

$585? That's nuts. It's an off the shelf, generic transformer. It's not like it's a trifilar wound McIntosh. Any 6.6k push pull transformer will work in this amp and quite possibly, sound better. Keep in mind, Ken had to build these amps to a price point. We have no idea which transformer he would have chosen if cost were not a consideration. Original and best are two different concepts and my money goes to the latter.

I'm not saying the transformer is not important. However, there was a lot of talk in the early days regarding transformers which, in retrospect, seemed more to discourage clones rather than to inform. Seems this may be a bit of a hangover from those heady days!

[M Fowler]

I totally agree Jackie.

Dr Z has talked many times about Ken Fischer designed transformers and you don't see Komet or Dr Z amps using Stancor.

[geetarpicker]

Seems though IF you have an original early model Trainwreck with the grey Stancor this would be cheap insurance to have around. If you blew a Stancor in an original TW you would have to replace it with the same thing. That would be one case where a modern clone transformer would surely devalue the amp WAY more than $585!

Would it be worth it in a clone? I won't comment until I compare such animals. The transformers are the MAIN components that changed mid way through on Ken's production, and back in the day even Ken mentioned if you really wanted more of a mellower bluesy amp one should seek out one of his early wrecks. If I take my '89 and '85 and compare circuitry on the bench it's darn shocking how near identical they are short of potentiometers brands and transformers. The '89 being both Pacifics, and the '85 has the Stancor and an off the shelf PT. The two amps sound and feel quite different however.

That said I plan to compare a Pacific OT to an original grey 3801a in one of my clones, to see if that is part of the original mojo all else being equal.

[aaronz28]

$585? That's nuts. It's an off the shelf, generic transformer. It's not like it's a trifilar wound McIntosh. Any 6.6k push pull transformer will work in this amp and quite possibly, sound better. Keep in mind, Ken had to build these amps to a price point. We have no idea which transformer he would have chosen if cost were not a consideration. Original and best are two different concepts and my money goes to the latter.

I'm not saying the transformer is not important. However, there was a lot of talk in the early days regarding transformers which, in retrospect, seemed more to discourage clones rather than to inform. Seems this may be a bit of a hangover from those heady days!

Since when did something's value equate to its guaranteed performance????
Transformers, Pickups, Professional Athletes LOL

These things - at least the subjective things - specifically, pickups, transformers, old speakers etc. - are all valued based on supply and demand.

in this case, I firmly believe that a grey stancor is only valued based on the fact that Ken used them in amps early on. People firmly believe that they sound "BETTER" than a black one. I think this is BS, but I'm not going to prevent anyone from spending their money.

As for the parts that Ken had available - AGREED 100%!!!! BUT - i do believe that these amps came to be what they are, and what they sound like, based on these specific parts - perhaps he voiced, or tweaked the early amps with that in mind - I don't know - what I can say, is that the Stancor sounds different than the Pacific, Heyboer, and any other I've heard. There is a smoothness to the sound that I prefer - so i've convinced myself that any Traiwreck type amp I build will have this OT in it, and i'm ok with that.

Glen is right - anyone who owns an old TW - having a grey stancor on hand is a very easy insurance policy that your amp doesn't take a 10% or more hit, should it fail - or should a tube drop and wipe out the OT - this happens.

This OT that I'm selling will probably wind up in a clone. Will that clone sound better than a clone with a Pacific? I think so - but again, I've done the A/B and I prefer the original Stancor - but I also prefer original PAFs to every single aftermarket i've tried - and I prefer old Tubes to any new tube i've tried - and I prefer old shoelaces to new ones

[Jackie Treehorn]

Best of luck with your transformer speculation/arbitrage.

[aaronz28]

thanks

[M Fowler]

The price isn't being driven up because owners of original Trainwrecks are seeking the Stancor transformers, rather because clone builders making statements that to get Trainwreck tone you have to use Stancor. Big difference.

I disagree on all of the internet hype. Use currently available resistors, caps, boards, turrets, wire, pots, chassis and transformers. Unless you just have to obsess over details to build a period correct museum piece.

There is always going to be guys like me that use what I have and those that demand lets say originality, neither are wrong are they!

[aaronz28]

The price isn't being driven up because owners of original Trainwrecks are seeking the Stancor transformers, rather because clone builders making statements that to get Trainwreck tone you have to use Stancor. Big difference.

I disagree on all of the internet hype. Use currently available resistors, caps, boards, turrets, wire, pots, chassis and transformers. Unless you just have to obsess over details to build a period correct museum piece.

There is always going to be guys like me that use what I have and those that demand lets say originality, neither are wrong are they!

I don't know of any Clone builder out there who makes some sort of "NOS" clone - although i've been considering offering a few - but I"m not really an amp builder - at least not in the "for profit" sense. Might build a few - who knows - but not as full-time business.

anyhow - I stand by claim that the stancor sounds different than the Pacific - and it sounds different than the Heyboer - both of which I'm told are clones of the A3801. not just a 6.6k OT - but this is info i've read online - so who knows.

I think much of what people read as "fact" online is just pure BS.
I've personalyl had hundreds of conversations with John Mark who now builds the Licensed TWs.. he is convinced that he can build a better sounding/quieter amp using some modern stuff - but most of the guys buying amps want EXACTLY what ken used, at all costs.

When I built my clone - I sourced every cap, resistor, wire, pot, etc. that I could find that was in original amps to see if it would sound "better" than the JM build I currently own.

There are DIFFERENCES for sure- but I won't even begin to suggest that one is better than the other. I have had both the Pacific and Stancor OTs in my amps - and i find that the old Stancor has a more relaxed sound to me - not quite as edgy. Thats my opinion - and has nothing to do with the value of a stancor.

[M Fowler]

Just like the Dumble side lot of builders moved on and so have the traditional Trainwreck builders on this side of the forum. Probably upset because we didn't keep the tradition going but Ken wanted the forum to go beyond what he had done to evolve. Many have you see PCB Express being made now from Fuchs, Dana, Allyn, and rjguitars probably others.

Take care.

[redshark]

What is so great about this forum is that the information is available so it is the choice of the builder to go for period correct or modern components to build an express, liverpool or rocket.
My decision was always to prioritize what has more impact on the tone of the amp and in those components get the closest to Ken as posible and then in things that don't make a diference use the best modern parts available like switches, power cord, impedance switch, etc.
The thing about Stancor and Pacific is that both are transformers that Ken used so as long as the part is available choose the one to please your preferences (bluesy and warmer vs. aggresive and edgier).
My experience is this: I had built 2 express amps, both with pacific, the only diference between the 2 was F&T filter caps and board with turrets vs. mallory filter caps and original vector board with flea clips....
Do they sound diferent? I will have to say yes and I don't even wanna think about what has more impact, probably the filter caps but I have to say....in this amps everylittle thing makes a diference and that has been said millions of times!!

I wish i could buy that Stancor now!!

[aaronz28]

What is so great about this forum is that the information is available so it is the choice of the builder to go for period correct or modern components to build an express, liverpool or rocket.
My decision was always to prioritize what has more impact on the tone of the amp and in those components get the closest to Ken as posible and then in things that don't make a diference use the best modern parts available like switches, power cord, impedance switch, etc.
The thing about Stancor and Pacific is that both are transformers that Ken used so as long as the part is available choose the one to please your preferences (bluesy and warmer vs. aggresive and edgier).
My experience is this: I had built 2 express amps, both with pacific, the only diference between the 2 was F&T filter caps and board with turrets vs. mallory filter caps and original vector board with flea clips....
Do they sound diferent? I will have to say yes and I don't even wanna think about what has more impact, probably the filter caps but I have to say....in this amps everylittle thing makes a diference and that has been said millions of times!!

I wish i could buy that Stancor now!!

send me an offer -

[HeeBGB]

I don't care about any of that. All i know is if that one on eBay goes for that price ima start mine a tree fitty

[jelle]

I'll give you four bucks if you take that nasty sticker off.