Express done.. I love it! (title edit)

[tsl602000]

Hi all,
I finished a Ceriatone Express with Toneslut OT. She fired up without any issues.
I immediately liked the clean sound, but I'll play my Fenders if I want clean.

I built this puppy for the sweet lead tone and that's exactly what this amp is lacking.
It's not smooth at all. It does the harmonics and feedback, but I hate the sound coming out of it. It's not even close to the clips of other clone's I heard on the net.
This amp reminds me alot of a 18 watt TMB I built a few years ago and absolutely hated.

Maybe I should give it some time, let the parts "burn in".
I'm disappointed.. can you tell?

I tested this amp on a vintage 4x12 with Greenbacks. Tubes are Tung Sol 12AX7 and JJ EL34

[Allynmey]

You might try swapping the Mallory 150's for Mallory PVC series caps (like a real wreck) and use the proper tubes. This amp is pretty transparent and it reproduces the tubes characteristics exactly. An Express uses Siemens EL-34's and Tungsram 12AX7's (Hungarian).

[Munga]

Hi all,
I finished a Ceriatone Express with Toneslut OT. She fired up without any issues.
I immediately liked the clean sound, but I'll play my Fenders if I want clean.

I built this puppy for the sweet lead tone and that's exactly what this amp is lacking.
It's not smooth at all. It does the harmonics and feedback, but I hate the sound coming out of it. It's not even close to the clips of other clone's I heard on the net.
This amp reminds me alot of a 18 watt TMB I built a few years ago and absolutely hated.

Maybe I should give it some time, let the parts "burn in".
I'm disappointed.. can you tell?

I tested this amp on a vintage 4x12 with Greenbacks. Tubes are Tung Sol 12AX7 and JJ EL34

Wrecks aren't for everyone.
Also, the amp is very transparent to the guitar you are using. What were you using when you tested it?

[lastwinj]

which secondary on the OT are u using?

germ

[riscado]

could someone please tell where to find PVC mallorys, if possible in europe... if not some other online place! The stores I normally use have 150's series only I believe.


thanks

[tsl602000]

Thanks for your replies.
I doubt that a Trainwreck isn't for me. It's just that this particular amp just doesn't "feel" right. It's not harsh or overly bright, but that creamy sound just isn't in there. The overdrive isn't tight, but very muddy. I have a re-issue plexi that sounds better and I don't even regard that amp as a good amp.

My voltages are slightly higher (I'll post them later, got the paper I wrote 'm down in the studio) than what I've seen on the forum.

I played around with different pre-amp tubes, but that didn't change much, if anything.
Changing the El34's with 6v6 tubes yielded better results, but still it doesn't sound nowhere near the Ceriatone soundfiles posted by Glenn Kuykendall on the gearpage.

I also noted some oscillation, that wasn't in the amp yesterday and I'm hearing ghost notes with the volume past 3 o'clock.

I tested the amp with a couple of strats. My favourite '59 strat didn't sound that good either.....

Where can I get those Mallory PVC series caps? I did a search on the forum, but couldn't find a source for those...

thanks,
Coen

[tsl602000]

which secondary on the OT are u using?

germ

the 6600 tap...

[Shermock]

Hello!

Is the pic accurate?

The reason I ask, is there is a missing connection in the PI. 220K resistor and cap not connected to the turret.

Unless you've connected that already, and the pic is "1 generation removed" from what you've done.

HTH!



Shermock

[tsl602000]

Shermock,
ha! you're right. I took that pic when I was installing a PPIMV. Which I removed afterwards....

[geetarpicker]

Glen Kuykendall here. A couple things come to mind, however the Ceriatone I recorded wasn't as smooth as my original Express but you could tell that from the clips. That said it wasn't bad.

When we were comparing my original to my friend's Ceriatone it was amazing how much better the Ceriatone sounded after we experimented with tube choices. I'm running old Sylvania 12AX7s, and new GT EL34Ms.
Putting those tubes in the Ceriatone made a noticable change towards the smooth spectrum. No, it still wasn't as smooth but it really helped.

Also, when we did the comparison clips and my latest video on Youtube I run a long guitar chord to smooth out the top end. x2 Mogami 20' cables end to end.

The output transformer input impedance thing is something I need to look at. I'd be curious what's in my original Express, and the clone we compared to which still had the original Ceriatone trannys in it.

I have a Toneslut OT right here to test. Hopefully I'll be able to borrow my friend's Ceriatone soon and compare the differences swapping this tranny into it makes.

You noted that your Ceriatone wasn't very tight. Pretty odd. The one I recorded was pretty tight on the bottom, it was the top end harshness that needed to be addressed. What tone settings are you running? I tend to run my original with the volume on 1:00-2:00, the other knobs 1/2, and the bright in the full (down) position.

[tsl602000]

Glenn,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. You're the one responsible for me wanting a trainwreck clone after seeing the Youtube vid with the strat...

I'm very interested in the results of the OT test.
What is the bias in your wreck? My "matched" JJ's have a 3 mA difference.
Maybe I should try the new GT Mullard repro EL34s.

I've tried to dial in different tones, but most of the time they were at 1/2 (12 o'clock) and the volume ranging from 11 o'clock to all the way up. I also noted my clone didn't have as much gain as I expected, so maybe I should replace my 12AX7's.

Thanks again,

Coen

[tsl602000]

I'm not exactly sure which voltages I should measure. So far I got this.

B1: 422V
B2: 406V
B3: 321V
B4: 301V
B5: 286

[castor]

I had a similar problem the 1st time I fired up my Lara.
Just a few things:
- this amp is very sensitive, so if you change tubes you can hear the difference (even if you change the preamp-wiring positions). I tested many tubes I had at home.. (mostly at bedroom level and i could hear the differences) every people have different tastes, but at the end I liked the 3 tung sol 12ax7, but replace quite immediately the JJ EL34 (with 2 sylvania winged C). now I have 3 EI in the pre
- warm up... tubes and other components need to warm up... The 1st time I built my hi-fi tube amp I immediately said 'ah.. what a piece of crap'.. then a freid of mine told me to keep it running at low level - or without imput signal- 24-48 hrs, and the sound changed. my clone now has a fandastic round tone.. I need to play it with bright on.. but It's about an year it sound so I confirm that sound changed mauch in this time... the more you use it the more you have a good sound.
- power caps: I ordered all parts to Nik and mounted them by myself (it's hard to find all right parts in Italy). I changed the ceriatone supply caps (20 and 40 micro) with atom ones--< sound was very different.. more low.. more round sound.
- caps: I keep these yellow caps for a year and they sounded good.. no problem with then (just a small 0.0022 that laks at the beginning but I replaced it). last month I changhed all caps with old mallory ones like an original trainwreck and sound is better.. more vintage than with the yellow one.. more warm and round.
- bias: check the bias value
- connections: check all wires and connections.. something can be missing
- guitar: I tried about 5-6 guitars with my clone... every one is different. You have fantastic lead tome with HB guitas (les pauls,..). With my strat sound is less distorted and less plenty.. I have to rise volume a bit.. but I play without a pick.

[tsl602000]

Castor,
Thanks for your reply.

I tried two TAD El34B-STR tubes in my wreck clone. According to the manufacturer they're pretty close to Mullards (don't they all say so???), but what a difference!
I took these from a matched quad I have in another amp, so I have to put 'm back, but now I'm convinced that a Wreck is very tube sensitive.

Those JJ's sound like crap!
I'm planning to take this amp on the road with me if I can take it to the point where I like it, so expensive NOS tubes are out of the question.

[castor]

and if you want a more aggressive sound you have to change te 1st tube with a 12AX7 LPS from Sovtek (important is the LPS).. This was my preferred solution with express (1 LPS + 2 tung sol)...
Now I use 3 E.I. (they're close to old telefunken) and sound is fantastic.
anyway you need to run it 10-20 hours minimum to let is sound decent..

anyway if something is not so good try to re-solder everything... a not so good soldering can alter the overall sound of the amp.

and then if you have money replace the 3 x 20 and 3 x 40 micro caps in the supply with atom/mallory/..

about voltages you measured... mine were close to the ones you find in the scheme sections.. just a bit low... I can't remember values but I think yours are too high.. anyway check in the scheme section... and put the bias (a simple measure) to about -30V