HERESY???

[Funkalicousgroove]

well, hows this for a tweak-

a few months back I built a TW inspired amp with a few changes, it was VERY cool, kind of like the bastard child of an Express and a deluxe reverb-

Here are the mods I made

250K Treble pot
500K bass pot/ .047uf bass cap

V1B Plate resistor bypassed with .001uf disk

3H choke in place of 25W resistor

50UF on the 1st filtering stage, 20uf, 20uf, 20uf, 8uf with 1K, 4.7, 2.2K dropping resistors.

This amp had a giant creamy response, with a nice spongy feel- Not sure how it sounded compared to an express, but It sure did sound good with a band!

[Robert]

I guess you guys got it all out of your system over our 2 newly departed members. I thought for sure this thread would be equally volatile and we might lose ampdoc1 over it. But fortunately we discovered its really just a forum about understanding amplifier circuits and thinking beyond the hype. Now that we have demystified Ken Fisher and his circuit, anyone up for Howard Dumble???

[Omar]

Robert
Funny you mention Dumble. I think there seems to be less verified info on his amps then Ken's. Since we have discovered so much info on the Express due to Francesca, I would totally be up for a Dumble discussion.

On a side note, my larger vision when I first started this forum was to have it be about more than just Trainwrecks. I would love to make it a general tube amp discussion forum and maybe get its own domain someday. Hopefully in time it will move in that direction.

Omar

[Funkalicousgroove]

I've built a # of Dead-On Dumble Clones, the schematics that are out there are 90% correct, I just finished a new one last night, happy to post pictures if you like-

[RossH]

I would be very interested in the pictures of your Dumble, Funk. Have you closed in on the remaining 10% and do you have some updated schemo/layout for that?

Thanks,
Ross

[HeeBGB]

I am also interested in this. Maybe if there is enough interest, Omar will put some info up in the files section!


Omar-Please keep in mind that bigger is not always better. With a larger more accessible forum comes more responsibility. You would need more moderators and probably have to deal with a lot more of the crap we went through a few weeks ago. Of course there are benefits too. I guess you will have to weigh the pros and cons.

Adding discussion on some other amps would be cool though!

[Funkalicousgroove]

I will let you know that if we do this there will be MUCHO hatemail from Alexander Dumble. I had a run of Clone chassis made a while back and posted them as available for sale on the Hoffmanamps.com forum, well Ol' Howie sent Doug Hoffman a nastygram threatening Lawsuits and all of that, so Doug had to remove the post. I am 99.99% sure that I have the missing 10%, the problem is that the people I got it from asked me not to share it. In good conscience I really must ask their permission before posting this info, but I'm happy to answer questions within reason via email. Funkalicousgroove_AT_Hotmail.com.

[Chris G]

Hi Guy's here's my lattest d-clone.......Fender showman head,twin trannies..etc....This is my take on a 70's-with some 90's circut changes.

[Omar]

I am also interested in this. Maybe if there is enough interest, Omar will put some info up in the files section!


Omar-Please keep in mind that bigger is not always better. With a larger more accessible forum comes more responsibility. You would need more moderators and probably have to deal with a lot more of the crap we went through a few weeks ago. Of course there are benefits too. I guess you will have to weigh the pros and cons.

Adding discussion on some other amps would be cool though!

I would definitely be up for posting the files if there is enough interest!

I understand the challenges of going bigger, but I have ideas about how I would like this forum to turn out and I'm willing to deal with those challenges. I frequently check out ampage.org since there a lot of great info there. But I don't like the interface and the anonymous posting by trolls is annoying.

Maybe it's just pie in the sky dreaming to move this board beyond Trainwrecks - although I have to admit the amount of info that has been posted in the past month or so about Trainwrecks has been awesome!

Just my 2 cents

Omar

[Robert]

I really didn't intend to alter the course of the Twreck Forum by my cavalier comment, but I am encouraged by the initial response. The similarities between the KF and HAD amplifier aura are interesting. Since the Twreck forum tackled KF it just seems natural to continue with the evermore mythical Mr. Dumble.
Of course another downside not mentioned is that once the mystery is solved then where too? I am just tweaking my Dumble build, Hybrid 70s preamp with the 1997 Power section schematics, and from the very first notes out of it, the appeal of the Twreck went way down. I will always own one just for the thrill and stress reduction it provides at high volume. However when I want to really play musically, for me, it will be the Dumble. It is an entirely different level of organic, touch sensitivity, tone and interaction between a player, guitar and amplifier --- with no hiss or high volume required. It is a shame the circuit has been kept so secret and people apparently afraid to say the man's name. He does have the trademark rights to the name "Dumble" and therefore can exercise his legal rights to its use on commerce.
We were successful here because we eventually attracted people who could share what they knew or owned. There have been great discussions and information shared via Ampage and Blue Guitar, but alot of that happened years ago, and I suspect more is known but not shared publicly. Given some time, we might prevail here and will have given the music world access to two of the better amps ever developed.

Funk and Chris G. pics and clips would be awesome!!!!

[ampdoc1]

I was lucky enough to hear Robert's D-clone and I have to admit that even as a passionate Wreck lover, the D amp has "more". But that's not to say I'm giving up on TWs. I'm finishing up a build that uses the preamp section of the TW and an overdrive stage from the D. Don't know what I'll have, but it's fun to experiment. My next builds will be the Two Rock Ruby (Wreck) on their kit I purchased, and a D amp with a chassis I got from Singapore.
Funkalicousgroove, Robert and I also have a LOT of D info, some of which has geen given to us (sometimes from the same party(ies)) with the request we not give it out.
But alot of the info is try this, try that,.. IE a lot of tweaking can be done to approach the tone and response a given player desires. Perhaps if bits of info were shared as members here began their own D projects, the resulting reports and demo clips would improve the builds and provide "demystification" like we've seen here with the TWs.

David Hicks

[Billy Batz]

Hey fellas. I havent posted in a long time but I have followed occassionaly and a lto recently because of all the interest the francesca pics stirred up on Metro. I have done both a TWreck and Dumble clone though neither were perfectly accurate because they were built into a Bandmaster chassis. That BM has seen more reincarnations then I can remember. Anyway, I put doing an accurate TW on hold while I finished my Marshall stuff. The Fran pics really helped motivate me but Im still not certain the sound I had with the BM chassis was really what Im about.

But to add to this discussion, my D clone was what I thought very very close to the Robben Ford sound after I tweaked it. Ive talked with many other D cloners, some who knew a little bit about Fords amp and others whove recorded clips which were indeed close to that 80s dumble sound (find scott lerner's clips if you can). I cant really say that much since I promised many of those guys I wouldnt- (I know I hate that shit too but I promised.)

Ive found that just like all the TWreck secrets theres no secret ingrediant or unusal design feature that 'explains' the Dumble tone. Just a few tweaks that work. I am realizing lately that both are much less about guru mojo or a mad scientist building each amp as it speaks to him and more about one clever overall circuit design. Anyone with ears tweakes there amp afterall.

The hybrid schematics probably come closest to tthat 80s ford sound. All I can say is the 2 amps are very different sounding. They are both very sensative though they both go about it in entirely different ways. I know some people do use the post OD stack and dial in their D's for a rocking tone but I find the D more a solo-ing blues type amp. I dont see how it could really be used for traditional rock type rhythm. The low notes mush out and are a bit fuzzy and that is a part of the huge sing that that amp has for lead sounds. Digging in also clashes with that amp. Its an amp taht to me seems to be all about the lighter side of dynamics and people with a light touch really love them. Its a stark contrast to my usual love- marshalls- which is why I think its a cool change of tempo. The D isnt about output drive as much either. If your into the Ford sound then the hybrid schematic seems to be best. No post OD stack. No precision power supply (just like 70s dumbles). Many people feel the dumbleator FX loop circuitry add a lot to the sound as well.

[ampdoc1]

Billy Batz,

I agree, I won't divulge all the info Some Learned guys gave me,..as such! I mean I won't copy that info and disperse it.
But when I get my amps built, if I have a sound that I think others will like, I'll be more than happy to give out a schematic with the values I use to get it's sound.
Here at TTP, as more amp were built and more info was shared we were able to verify almost 100% of the circuitry of the original. That's fine,...but I for one took that basic info and then modified the amps to do more of what I wanted,...lower hiss, master volume, reduced power circuitry, etc. And I post schematics of my builds as well as well as some original TW material.
If you don't mind, how about sharing some MP3s and a schematic of your D amp. I've never seen two schematics the same, so your "version" will just be more info for us all to glean.

David Hicks

[Billy Batz]

I dont have MP3s but Ill send anyone who wants one the schem I made of my amp but I have to leave 1 thing out. If I had the amps myself Id take pictures of them and schem them for everyone.

[RossH]

I would love to see a copy...

theoctave_AT_comcast.net

Thanks!
Ross