Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:05 pm
Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Hi folks, 1st post here!
I recently acquired a Ceriatone C-Wreck and its just a bit too gainy for me. I 'd love to get a bit more clean headroom out of it.
It sounds like the Rocket would be more to my liking. While I'm not a tech, I'm fine making changes to a layout. Can you tell me what changes you would recommend to this layout to get it closer to Rocket specs?
Thanks in advance!
I recently acquired a Ceriatone C-Wreck and its just a bit too gainy for me. I 'd love to get a bit more clean headroom out of it.
It sounds like the Rocket would be more to my liking. While I'm not a tech, I'm fine making changes to a layout. Can you tell me what changes you would recommend to this layout to get it closer to Rocket specs?
Thanks in advance!
-
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:35 pm
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
So, your first post, you skip the Ceriatone information thread, and highjack somebody else's thread?
https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 53#p218894
You're going to be fun...
https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 53#p218894
You're going to be fun...
- pompeiisneaks
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4222
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:36 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Bob's right.
Generally on forums, it's better to start your own thread if it isn't just a reply to an existing thread's content. Your's is very specific and original, so it should live in a new thread, I'm going to split this thread off from your post.
Also, it seems to me like, if you want less gain, a Rocket isn't the way to go. All of the trainwreck circuits are known for their gain. If you want a clean toned amp, you probably should be building something like a Dumble SSS or at a minimum one of the later generation fenders. Ken Fisher was known for building amps that were on the edge of being too gainy, and dialing them back carefully to just below that 'losing your mind' level on the amp.
I don't have the time to compare, but superficially the C-Wreck looks a lot like a rocket to me.
There are some good threads in the trainwreck discussion area that discuss taming the express/rocket/etc. Those would be a good area for you to look into doing such a thing.
~Phil
Generally on forums, it's better to start your own thread if it isn't just a reply to an existing thread's content. Your's is very specific and original, so it should live in a new thread, I'm going to split this thread off from your post.
Also, it seems to me like, if you want less gain, a Rocket isn't the way to go. All of the trainwreck circuits are known for their gain. If you want a clean toned amp, you probably should be building something like a Dumble SSS or at a minimum one of the later generation fenders. Ken Fisher was known for building amps that were on the edge of being too gainy, and dialing them back carefully to just below that 'losing your mind' level on the amp.
I don't have the time to compare, but superficially the C-Wreck looks a lot like a rocket to me.
There are some good threads in the trainwreck discussion area that discuss taming the express/rocket/etc. Those would be a good area for you to look into doing such a thing.
~Phil
tUber Nerd!
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:05 pm
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
You guys can delete the thread.
I will go play guitar...
I will go play guitar...
- pompeiisneaks
- Site Admin
- Posts: 4222
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:36 pm
- Location: Washington State, USA
- Contact:
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
I generally go out of my way to not delete threads, as I hope they'll be useful for someone, at some point, if they go and read through threads before asking questions.
~Phil
~Phil
tUber Nerd!
-
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:11 am
- Location: Leesburg Georgia
- Contact:
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Put 6BW6 tubes in it. Have to change pin 8 and 9 and tie g3 to the cathode but it’ll give it more input headroom. Don’t know what it will sound like. Roll back the guitar volume.
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
On V1 change the 220k plate (anode) resistor to 180k or 150k or even 120k the amp will clean up.
If you want less gain even remove the cathode resistor bypass cap on V2.
If you want less gain even remove the cathode resistor bypass cap on V2.
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:05 pm
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Thanks for that!
It only has one input, so I might try a 68k instead of the 33k to make it a 'low' input.
I appreciate the advice!
It only has one input, so I might try a 68k instead of the 33k to make it a 'low' input.
I appreciate the advice!
-
- Posts: 3111
- Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:48 pm
- Location: Mobile, AL
- Contact:
1 others liked this
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
That won't make it a low input. I doubt you'll be able to hear a difference between 33K and 68KIt only has one input, so I might try a 68k instead of the 33k to make it a 'low' input.
-
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:11 am
- Location: Leesburg Georgia
- Contact:
1 others liked this
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
Sub a 100k for the 220k plate load resistor on v1 and change the voltage divider at the phase inverter from 220k/220k to ground to something like 100k/470k to ground.
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
I'd start with removing the 22uF cap from the cathode of the second stage (prior to the cathode follower) that will make the Amp more Rocket like (to a degree), the amp will also have less gain.
The voltage divider prior to the P.I. halves the signal to the P.I. You can try changing that ratio, but you have to know where the distortion is occurring.
The voltage divider prior to the P.I. halves the signal to the P.I. You can try changing that ratio, but you have to know where the distortion is occurring.
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
Mark Abbott
-
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:05 pm
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
wpaulvogel, I changed the 220k plate resistor to 100k and that combined with a 12at7 in v-1 gave me the clean headroom I was seeking.Nice sparkly cleans too!
It used to break up around 10 o'clock now its between 12 and 1 on the volume knob.
Should I also do the 220k/220k to 100k/470k swap?
It used to break up around 10 o'clock now its between 12 and 1 on the volume knob.
Should I also do the 220k/220k to 100k/470k swap?
-
- Posts: 436
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:11 am
- Location: Leesburg Georgia
- Contact:
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
I’d run 12AX7’s throughout the amp, if it’s too much gain then I’d adjust the voltage divider.
- norburybrook
- Posts: 3290
- Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:47 am
- Location: London
- Contact:
1 others liked this
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
I've just fitted a switch to my Z-Wreck amp that lifts the cathode cap and the voltage divider 220k. This makes it like the rocket albeit with less filtering. It does make a big difference to the gain of the amp. it's an easy switch to put in so you can have the best of both worlds.
the cap by V1 is the DC blocker for the VVR master volume I fitted. Stops scratchy volume pot.
M
the cap by V1 is the DC blocker for the VVR master volume I fitted. Stops scratchy volume pot.
M
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Ceriatone C-Wreck vs Rocket
The switch is a mod Ken Fischer put in at least one Rocket. I also put it in my Rocket clone. To my ear there is a bit less gain when the voltage divider and 25uF cap are engaged. The cap does increase the gain but the voltage divider reduces it.
The switch to me is a humbucking/single coil switch. The Rocket in it's normal state suits single coils a little more. The cap with the voltage divide seems to my ear to cut the mids in the Rocket making it more suitable for humbuckers.
The switch to me is a humbucking/single coil switch. The Rocket in it's normal state suits single coils a little more. The cap with the voltage divide seems to my ear to cut the mids in the Rocket making it more suitable for humbuckers.
Yours Sincerely
Mark Abbott
Mark Abbott