Clone vs real deal... mp3?

[Fischerman]

I think they sound close enough and both sound great (I'm not gonna guess until I can listen on decent speakers and without a copy machine going next door ). My question to Glenn is: Did you use the exact same circuit or did you have to deviate a little bit to get it to sound so close?

Great playing as usual.

[slajeune]

Well,

I think that Y is the real one. But both clips are great! X has a great blues grit to it. And as always, superb playing on those clips.

Cheers,
Stephane.

[Krinkle]

Hey Glen,

After you reveal which amp is the Trainwreck, you should swap all of the tubes, rebias both amps and redo the test. I wonder if some people would change their minds.

Darrin

[mlp-mx6]

Sounds to me like x=clone, y=Wreck.

[Lonely Raven]

I've been waiting for this post to come up. Thanks for doing it Glen!

I'm at work on a cheap computer, but with half-way decent ear canal headphones, so I'm going to throw my hat in here.

X sounds more mellow and has a hint of upper mid peak to it. Maybe a hint more of that touch sensitivity (or the other clip is slightly more compressed making this one seem more touch sensitive)

Y sounds a bit more edgy and has a bit more sparkle to it. Maybe even an SRV like mid scoop, though very slight. The extra edge made this clip sound slightly louder as well.

They are close enough that speakers and mic placement could have made those differences. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say the X is TW and Y is Clone. I personally prefer the sound of Y because it sounds a bit more ROCK and a bit more modern. But without a side by side comparo, I'd say they both smoke!

[fredy]

personally i prefered clip X but the overdrive squeelie bend at the start of Y squealed like a lil piggy which i love.

[geetarpicker]

I'll agree with Martin that a little mic movement on amp Y would probably have taken the extra edge away on that one. Still, amp X may have still come across as a tiny bit more compressed and smoother...

Both amps had the same tubes, early 60s Sylvania 12AX7s and new GT EL34Ms #7 rating.

The little bit of extra mids on amp X can also be partially contributed to the slant cab. To my ears slants have a little more lmids and less deep bass, which can make them sound just a little thicker for lead work and perhaps the opposite on deep rhythm work. It would have been interesting to do the same clips with the cabs swapped between the two amps. I bet that might have made it even harder to tell them apart.

Thanks folks! I appreciate the + "playing" comments too.

I'll let the mystery continue a little bit longer. I would have posted this sooner, but I didn't know that this site could host clips directly.

?

[Lonely Raven]

I'll agree with Martin that a little mic movement on amp Y would probably have taken the extra edge away on that one. Still, amp X may have still come across as a tiny bit more compressed and smoother...

Both amps had the same tubes, early 60s Sylvania 12AX7s and new GT EL34Ms #7 rating.

The little bit of extra mids on amp X can also be partially contributed to the slant cab. To my ears slants have a little more lmids and less deep bass, which can make them sound just a little thicker for lead work and perhaps the opposite on deep rhythm work. It would have been interesting to do the same clips with the cabs swapped between the two amps. I bet that might have made it even harder to tell them apart.

Thanks folks! I appreciate the + "playing" comments too.

I'll let the mystery continue a little bit longer. I would have posted this sooner, but I didn't know that this site could host clips directly.

?

OK, now I *know* you have good ears. NOBODY believes me when I say I can hear a difference between straight and slant cabs! I'm positive that either the difference in airspace, or the difference in front panel creates a slightly different tone, all things being equal.

Hell, EJ says he can hear the difference between each speaker on a stack, even with a 100 watt amp cranking through them! Though I doubt he does that much, as protective as he is of his hearing. I just know that he marks certain speakers as choice ones to mic for stage and studio.

[dartanion]

Cab design DOES affect tone. I would wager that the clips would sound even closer done with the same cab.

Have you thought of re-amping Glenn?

[leaveitalone84]

I'll agree with Martin that a little mic movement on amp Y would probably have taken the extra edge away on that one. Still, amp X may have still come across as a tiny bit more compressed and smoother...

Both amps had the same tubes, early 60s Sylvania 12AX7s and new GT EL34Ms #7 rating.

The little bit of extra mids on amp X can also be partially contributed to the slant cab. To my ears slants have a little more lmids and less deep bass, which can make them sound just a little thicker for lead work and perhaps the opposite on deep rhythm work. It would have been interesting to do the same clips with the cabs swapped between the two amps. I bet that might have made it even harder to tell them apart.

Thanks folks! I appreciate the + "playing" comments too.

I'll let the mystery continue a little bit longer. I would have posted this sooner, but I didn't know that this site could host clips directly.

?

OK, now I *know* you have good ears. NOBODY believes me when I say I can hear a difference between straight and slant cabs! I'm positive that either the difference in airspace, or the difference in front panel creates a slightly different tone, all things being equal.

Hell, EJ says he can hear the difference between each speaker on a stack, even with a 100 watt amp cranking through them! Though I doubt he does that much, as protective as he is of his hearing. I just know that he marks certain speakers as choice ones to mic for stage and studio.

I can pick out the tone of each of the (8) 10" speakers in my vintage SVT straight back cab. The straight back 8x10's also sound better with a 5 string bass. Compared to the slant back with towel bar they can reach down to that B string much better, less fart.

I think people don't know what too listen for when they try to listen to difference in cabinets.

[jjman]

I prefered x thru the speakers but y thru the headphones. Close enough for me.

My trannies arrived yesturday so I'm now ready to start on mine so I can join the club.

[geetarpicker]

I think they sound close enough and both sound great (I'm not gonna guess until I can listen on decent speakers and without a copy machine going next door ). My question to Glenn is: Did you use the exact same circuit or did you have to deviate a little bit to get it to sound so close?

Great playing as usual.

Thanks! Yes the circuit in my two clones are exact copies of my original with no changes.

[drgonzoguitar]

Y!

[RiffRaff]

Both amps had the same tubes, early 60s Sylvania 12AX7s and new GT EL34Ms #7 rating.
?

What does the tube rating mean?

Tim

[geetarpicker]

GT rates the tubes for the point were they start to break up. The theory is you can get predictable results and bias settings if you stay with the same "ratings" of tubes if you swap them out, as in you don't have to rebias. That's the theory anyway. I just had better luck finding 3 matched sets in the #7 variety of these particular tubes than a few I found that were lower or higher ratings.