Ceriatone Expression

Lousyatit · Post by **Lousyatit** » Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:30 am

I would like opinions on the Expression, as far as sound and component quality are concerned. Do these compare favorably with a good "home cooked" Express style amp.

Lousyatit · Post by **Lousyatit** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:54 am

No one has an opinion?

dartanion · Post by **dartanion** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:09 am

Niks kits are nice. There is nothing wrong with them at all, however I would recommend using a different OT. The stock one from Nik sounds nice, but a more accurate OT sounds better in these amps. Also, using the right tubes makes a huge difference.

sliberty · Post by **sliberty** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:39 pm

I have never heard an Expression myself, but I believe that Glen might have done some comparisons with his real Express - I might have seen that over on TGP.

+1 on the trannies, although my reason is different. SHipping costs from Malaysia really add up. So shipping the amp without trannies, and getting them here, in particular from Moose (ToneSlut), makes a lot of sense.

dartanion · Post by **dartanion** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:56 pm

+1 on shipping costs. With the economy the way it is and fuel prices skyrocketing, any cost savings is negated with shipping heavy items like the transformers.

Lonely Raven · Post by **Lonely Raven** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:43 pm

That's what I did as well. I ordered my "kit" from Nik, but said no tubes, no faceplate, no transformers. I just sourced all that stuff locally. I went with the toneslut transformers as that was said to be one of the best options. For a few $$ more, Nik sent some caps that were closer to what Ken used.

I have a few wood faceplates left over as well by the way.

geetarpicker · Post by **geetarpicker** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:19 pm

The stock Ceriatone OT gives the amp much more volume. The Ceriatone I played was louder with 6V6s than my original is with EL34s! And to be honest you don't need the extra volume with these amps. Maybe if Nik's OT has a 6.6k tap it won't be as loud? The one I heard was probably 5.2k.

If it were me I start with Nik's kit but use Mallory power supply AND signal caps, and specifically Pacific transformers if you can still get them in original spec. Most black tranny original Express amps I've played had the Pacifics, so why not get the real deal iron?

In stock form the Ceriatone is more towards a hot rodded Marshall tone than an Express tone. More forward, brighter, and a little harsher, but cleans up well. Fine amp for the $ but a bit different.

mumford · Post by **mumford** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:20 pm

geetarpicker wrote:The stock Ceriatone OT gives the amp much more volume. The Ceriatone I played was louder with 6V6s than my original is with EL34s!
In stock form the Ceriatone is more towards a hot rodded Marshall tone than an Express tone.

It's interesting to hear you say this. I built an Expression kit and it was WAY louder than I expected, and as you say, sounds like a pretty good Marshall. I love it, but it's not what I expected. It's got no headroom with P90s, but has a beautiful clean tone with my 335.

What should I expect in terms of the change in sound if I changed the transformers? I'm happy with what I have, but I'm interested in knowing my options.

Tubetwang · Post by **Tubetwang** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:45 pm

for what it's worth, my express was built with Nik's boards and chassis.

I had the rest in my stash...Hammond 272JX PT and an old 35w Pacific OT that i salvaged from an old PA.

Phenolic sockets with RCA 12AX7 and Telsa EL-34.

Sounds great but i cannot use the volume much past 1 or 2 with this set-up (i'm a home player ...music room is 20'x12' and it loads up pretty quick).

With 6V6's i can play at tube spinning volume but...

The VVR will probably be a big help...

I've built a Liverpool with one of Nik's OT and his boards and chassis.
Using phenolic sockets Telefunken 12AX7 and RCA's EL84, Hammond 272JX.
Nik's OT is as big as the 272JX. That Liverpool is loud!

Again...VVR will most likely save my ass...and my mariage.

I tried pulling two EL84 and that helped...reducing the loudness.

leaveitalone84 · Post by **leaveitalone84** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:42 pm

I have a Nik built express which i've thrown NOS preamp tubes and a Tone Slut OT into.

Made it less like a hot rodded marshal and more trainwreck.

sliberty · Post by **sliberty** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:54 pm

leaveitalone84 wrote:I have a Nik built express which i've thrown NOS preamp tubes and a Tone Slut OT into.

Made it less like a hot rodded marshal and more trainwreck.

Certainly makes sense. The circuit is the circuit, and Nik's choice of caps wouldn't make such a big difference as to change the tone that dramatically. The OT is the main deviation point. I don't know much about the trannie that Nik uses, but I read here that it makes the amp much louder. Might very well be a 50 watt Marshall style trannie, while KF used trannies based on a Stancor 3801 (from what I have read). Probably why you can't get one on eBay for a good price anymore

leaveitalone84 · Post by **leaveitalone84** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:21 pm

sliberty wrote:
leaveitalone84 wrote:I have a Nik built express which i've thrown NOS preamp tubes and a Tone Slut OT into.

Made it less like a hot rodded marshal and more trainwreck.
Certainly makes sense. The circuit is the circuit, and Nik's choice of caps wouldn't make such a big difference as to change the tone that dramatically. The OT is the main deviation point. I don't know much about the trannie that Nik uses, but I read here that it makes the amp much louder. Might very well be a 50 watt Marshall style trannie, while KF used trannies based on a Stancor 3801 (from what I have read). Probably why you can't get one on eBay for a good price anymore

Nik threw in the Orange Drop PS caps for an upgrade. Which they supposedly sound closer to the mallorys. But again, I'm using 2 alnico speakers in an oval back combo so my express will not sound like a real one with a 4x12 greenbacked marshall cab.

tubedogsmith · Post by **tubedogsmith** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:32 pm

FWIW, I recently loaded a Ceriatone express chassis into one of my wood headboxes for a friend. The chassis as it came looked fine and sounded OK. When I unscrewed all the components on the front to measure for and fit the wood face panel a half dozen or so of the solder connections between the pots and boards just came loose. After looking at them it was apparent that the connections really hadn't been heated but all that was done was a hot solder blob applied.
After putting the amp back together and reflowing all the solder joints in the amp it sounded like a blanket had been taken off the speaker. Much livelier sounding and more responsive. This amp already had USA trannies. Just one experience with one amp but if you have one of these this info may be handy.

Lonely Raven · Post by **Lonely Raven** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Wow, Nik must be hiring out some work then...I've seen his work, and it's impressive.

leaveitalone84 · Post by **leaveitalone84** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:55 pm

FWIW back the end of last year Nik had some other guy doing the TW clones......

So it's been that way all along I believe. Maybe there was a new guy.

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