Great Strat tone but way overdriven LP tone....Express poll

[sliberty]

It seems that the secret to using an Express (and maybe a Liverpool too) is to work the volume pot on your guitar. On humbucking equiped guitars, you might find yourself with the guitar volume much lower than on a Strat (P90 guitars are somewhere in between). It's part of the game, and it's a part that I really like actually.

[geetarpicker]

On a related note I just posted a new thread for a video I just found playing my LP into a '91 Trainwreck Liverpool. It was on a cable TV show way back in '92. Pretty high gain but that was the point on the songs I played.

Also bonus footage of Ken Fischer filmed in his basement!

[Roe]

It seems that the secret to using an Express (and maybe a Liverpool too) is to work the volume pot on your guitar. On humbucking equiped guitars, you might find yourself with the guitar volume much lower than on a Strat (P90 guitars are somewhere in between). It's part of the game, and it's a part that I really like actually.

well many humbucker guitars wont clean up even with the volume on 2 or below. you need a lowoutput HB, a good touch and good pots

[sliberty]

I can see why this might be the case with extreme pickups, but with traditional humbuckers, and good pots, this should not be the case. I suppose a foot controlled volume pedal might also be an option.

[Wayne]

Anybody ever try a switchable attenuator at the input, or maybe the classic Hi/Lo inputs?

W

[rooster]

Wayne - Your comments were good, and certainly something to consider. If potting down solves the issue, both ideas would have an effect. But I think I am satisfied that what I was running into is not so unique, this may have been the best thng to come to light here.

I might try a couple of other things, or maybe give it a rest owing to what was posted here. If everyone is satisfied that they can make their HBS work well with potting down, then I guess I need to take a harder look at this. My lead HB tone is not an issue at this point, it is the rhythm playing. I would just like the amp to behave like it does with the Strat, you know?To do this well there is more to consider that just the 3rd stage coupling cap, yes, and I wondered what others might have done. Nothing to the circuit apparently. OK, this is good to know.

My last thought now is to wonder if KF ever considered this issue and maybe came up with something that we will never see. Its possible. Too, I also have to mention the fact that guys like Robben Ford and Larry Carlton use volume pedals with their Dumbles. A different circuit, yes, but maybe they are the smart guys to enlist a volume pedal in the HB chain, you know? Eh, the last thing I want to do is run a volume pedal but, who knows, maybe that's important.

Glen - I saw your new clips and they were totally cool for the time. The interviewer was a bit too loose for my tastes but he accomplished a few things with his program, good job overall then. Was that an Altair attenuator I saw on your TW? Man, I heard KF hated those things, true? But your tone was appropriate for the time and the tune, no real complaints here.

[KGW]

I just adjust the volume up or down for humbuckers vs single coils.
My Express clone sounds good with both my strat and my Fender Flame (humbuckers). I have another guitar with old EMGs that I don't particularly like with the Express.

On the other hand, my 50W Marshall 1987 clone sounds great with humbuckers and single coils, but does not really have enough gain for blistering strat solos.

[67plexi]

I had Jim Rolph make me 4 sets of 1958 paf style humbuckers not overwound 7 to 8 k range I can make my custom shop les paul's sound like a strat. and as time goes on they sound better.
The stock burstbuckers sounded like mud to me.
AS far as strats I use a 1960,1961 and a custom shop with Rolph pickups
to me the slaboard strats don't sound to bright.
A+ to Jim Rolph for his work.

[rooster]

Whew, that's some budget you are running with 67Plexi, my hat is off to you for going the this extra mile. I have no doubt that the Nashville bred pickups are frikn' amazing. I will have to make the effort and try them someday.

.........SO are you saying you plug them into an Express clone and they sound awsome with the pots on '10'? Or do you do like Glen does and pot them down a bit for your best lead tone?

[muchxs]

I have to say what got me into Trainwrecks was a guy with a Les Paul plugged into one of Allyn's wrecks at the Kenilworth ampfest. I hadn't heard anything quite like it until then.

Both of Allyn's amps were parked on a desk over by the door in the small amp room for most of the day. Some guy from Pennsylvania accidentally spilled beer all over them at one point.

Allyn's amps got a workout when the place cleared out late in the day. I was hooked, that tone is simply it. It didn't occur to me that the Les Paul wasn't wide open, I assumed it was...

[geetarpicker]

Whew, that's some budget you are running with 67Plexi, my hat is off to you for going the this extra mile. I have no doubt that the Nashville bred pickups are frikn' amazing. I will have to make the effort and try them someday.

.........SO are you saying you plug them into an Express clone and they sound awsome with the pots on '10'? Or do you do like Glen does and pot them down a bit for your best lead tone?

I'm not quite sure when you say "pot them down" if we are talking the same thing? I have the pickups in my guitars "potted" with wax to deter feedback problems. However when I play my LP or Strat I will play solos plenty often with the guitar knobs up all the way. It's the cleaner tones that I then back off for.

[rooster]

Glen - 'potting them down' means turning the pot down. I could see where the word 'potting' could refer to the actual wax potting of the pickups maybe but not so in this case.

And now I reread your post and see where you didn't actually say that you turned the pots down for a solo moment - but I somehow read in your post that you might take a solo with the volume of the gtr backed off a bit by either turning the tone pot down (which you said reduced the overall volume?), or actually turning the volume pot down a bit. ???

OK, I am glad you came back here to say that you play often with the pots all turned up. I didn't walk away thinking that from the earlier post, actually. In fact I was thinking that you were rarely turning the pots all the way up - if at all. !!!!!!!!! Man, can I misread something I guess. But now that I think about it, because you are always saying that your Expresses are pretty bright, I can see where you would turn everything up for a solo

You were right noticing my comment and thinking that I had assumed something incorrrectly. I did!!! I will read better next time.

[stevek66]

I would say I prefer my Strat with my Express.However I also think a Strat is a more versatile guitar than a les paul,at least in my hands.When I plug in my Gold top I turn down the mids from noon to about 10:00.That works for me.This all applies to running the amp at 1:00 or better.
Most of the places my band plays,I can't play that loud.Not even close.I run a pedal board when we play out.In this setting thier isn't really any difference for me on what guitar I play but I tend to play my Les Paul more because of the music we play.

Steve

[Rockeraaj]

Here is a perspective from someone who preferes HBs in general. I have an Explorer with Kevin Smits Ultra 7D alnico 8 magnets and an SG with Burstbucker pros. So both guitars are equipped with humbuckers with the Explorer being heavier and having hotter pickups. Through my Express clone, I get two really different tones and they are just as you'd expect, Explorer meaner and more aggressive, SG mean enough, but way less aggressive. I believe this is in part because the SG is a lighter guitar. A friend put his Les Paul with Alnico 2s through the amp, and it gave a 3rd tone yet. It was real huge and awesome. These amps are SO responsive to the guitar it's crazy. And I find that the heavier the guitar itself is, the more aggressive and "wide" the tone is. So I'm thinking maybe it's not that HBs are over the top by themselves necessarily. It's also a combination of pickup and guitar. Having said all that, I have a Tele here that sounds good, too, but I prefer that hot, nasty HB tone. But I also believe that the HBs don't clean up as well with the volume control on the guitar as single coils do. Yeah, no new revelations here, just thought I'd toss this out to y'all.
Happy Thanksgiving folks!
Aaron

[bnwitt]

On a related note I just posted a new thread for a video I just found playing my LP into a '91 Trainwreck Liverpool. It was on a cable TV show way back in '92. Pretty high gain but that was the point on the songs I played.

Also bonus footage of Ken Fischer filmed in his basement!

Seems kind of odd to hear KF explaining tube amps 101 stuff

Glen your chops are always impressive.