The Amp Garage

I currently have 100watt 2x12 cabinet with 2 x 15 ohm speakers wired in Paralel giving a 8ohm load for both together

1 speaker is the Celestion G12-65 Heritage and the other is a Celestion Gold

The 12-65 is rated 65W and has 97db sensitivity
The Gold is rated 50W and has 100db sensitivity

I was speaking to Alessandro http://www.alessandro-products.com and he advised against mixing different speakers into the same baffle board due to harmonic issues

I have never experienced any problems but again I have never cranked my cab with the 100watt head I have (1973 Marshall Super Bass) to see how it would behaved when pushed

I am wondering what is everyone's experience with mix'n'matching speakers

Thanks

ALOT of mixing and matching going on.

Harmonic issues? Please describe the nature of the harmonic issues.

vibratoking wrote:ALOT of mixing and matching going on.

Harmonic issues? Please describe the nature of the harmonic issues.

Thanks for the reply. Yes indeed a lot of mix and match on my set up

I haven't noticed any harmonic issues but Alessandro advised against and I quote "You can get weird harmonic issues with dissimilar speakers on the same baffle board."

Not entirely sure what he means to be honest

"You can get weird harmonic issues with dissimilar speakers on the same baffle board."

That's a rather meaningless statement.

Most of us probably can't hear much about 10-12K. So much for harmonic issues. If they exist and you can't hear them, what's that? The sound of one hand clapping.

Phil_S wrote:Most of us probably can't hear much about 10-12K. So much for harmonic issues. If they exist and you can't hear them, what's that? The sound of one hand clapping.

Thanks Phil, that is what I thought. I had both speakers on my cab for a bit over a year now and for me they are very complementary and sound great together so I was surprised with Alessandro's note. But again I have never really pushed the cab so hard to tell for sure

That clarifies a bit!

I understand Dr. Z has purposely put two different speakers in his 2x12's. G12H and V30. http://drzamps.com/product/2x12/

Many of us mix n match. Rather than Harmonic issues meaning hi freq harmonics , maybe he meant intermodulation issues, like beat interference.
I've had great luck. Some combinations sound better than others, but I haven't had any truly bad pairings.

I use mix and match anytime I have two speakers in a cab. One for bottom end one for sparkle and clarity. The pair together sound better than any pair of the same model. I think the little bit of difference in the pair is a good thing... Never heard a really bad combo.

Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences
I'm glad to read more of you do the mix and match
Any opinions on the combination of speakers I choose

Bombacaototal wrote:Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences
I'm glad to read more of you do the mix and match
Any opinions on the combination of speakers I choose

I don't have any specific recommendations for you, but I'd like to comment on mixing speakers with differing sensitivity; and I suspect you already know this, since you took the time to specify the sensitivity of the two speakers in your first 2x12 cabinet, and it is interesting that they are 3dB apart, because that number represents doubling the output power to the speaker. Your Gold is rated at 100dB and the 12-65 is 97dB. If you wanted to get the same volume level from the two speakers, you would need to supply twice the power to the 12-65. Every time you double the power to a speaker (which is equivalent to increasing the voltage to it by 41.4%), you get a 3dB increase in volume (SPL) -until the speaker reaches its mechanical limit. A 1dB difference is SPL is defined as the difference that can just barely be detected by 50% of people tested, so a 3dB difference is not significant; just be aware that the Gold will be contributing a little bit more to the mix.

JazzGuitarGimp wrote:

Bombacaototal wrote:Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences
I'm glad to read more of you do the mix and match
Any opinions on the combination of speakers I choose

I don't have any specific recommendations for you, but I'd like to comment on mixing speakers with differing sensitivity; and I suspect you already know this, since you took the time to specify the sensitivity of the two speakers in your first 2x12 cabinet, and it is interesting that they are 3dB apart, because that number represents doubling the output power to the speaker. Your Gold is rated at 100dB and the 12-65 is 97dB. If you wanted to get the same volume level from the two speakers, you would need to supply twice the power to the 12-65. Every time you double the power to a speaker (which is equivalent to increasing the voltage to it by 41.4%), you get a 3dB increase in volume (SPL) -until the speaker reaches its mechanical limit. A 1dB difference is SPL is defined as the difference that can just barely be detected by 50% of people tested, so a 3dB difference is not significant; just be aware that the Gold will be contributing a little bit more to the mix.

Thanks a lot for the detailed technical explanation. Yes when I paired them I was aware of the difference in sensitivity but being honest I did not overthink it and really only assessed what was going on after having the cab. My feeling is that about 65 to 70% of the sound I hear from the amp is coming from the Gold (is this about right?). Usually when I record I mic them individually and then match the levels with the mixer and also use different mics for each to bring the best of their individual sounds
It is indeed great to read I did not do something I shouldn't even if I chose an imperfect and unusual match

Bombacaototal wrote:

JazzGuitarGimp wrote:

Bombacaototal wrote:Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences
I'm glad to read more of you do the mix and match
Any opinions on the combination of speakers I choose

I don't have any specific recommendations for you, but I'd like to comment on mixing speakers with differing sensitivity; and I suspect you already know this, since you took the time to specify the sensitivity of the two speakers in your first 2x12 cabinet, and it is interesting that they are 3dB apart, because that number represents doubling the output power to the speaker. Your Gold is rated at 100dB and the 12-65 is 97dB. If you wanted to get the same volume level from the two speakers, you would need to supply twice the power to the 12-65. Every time you double the power to a speaker (which is equivalent to increasing the voltage to it by 41.4%), you get a 3dB increase in volume (SPL) -until the speaker reaches its mechanical limit. A 1dB difference is SPL is defined as the difference that can just barely be detected by 50% of people tested, so a 3dB difference is not significant; just be aware that the Gold will be contributing a little bit more to the mix.

Thanks a lot for the detailed technical explanation. Yes when I paired them I was aware of the difference in sensitivity but being honest I did not overthink it and really only assessed what was going on after having the cab. My feeling is that about 65 to 70% of the sound I hear from the amp is coming from the Gold (is this about right?). Usually when I record I mic them individually and then match the levels with the mixer and also use different mics for each to bring the best of their individual sounds
It is indeed great to read I did not do something I shouldn't even if I chose an imperfect and unusual match

Above all, I think your ear should be your guide - if you like what you're hearing, there's no need to submerse yourself in the minutia of technical details - at least, once you get past the import technical stuff; Is the load impedance matched to my amp?, and can the speakers handle enough power so they won't explode!

I wrote a note to Celestion with my question and this was their feedback

Generally, as long as the sensitivity rating is no more than 3dB different, you should be ok…

I bet that’s a good blend!

While I use 2 x 1 x 12 cabinets when I mix, I like a Hemp Coned JBL E120 x a Celestion Cream. Ceramic/Alnico mix. JBL is in a tuned Ported cabinet made specifically for the E120.

What happens in my case is the JBL supplies all the highs and lows that could ever be needed, and the Celestion takes up the slack on all of the Mids coloring that the JBL doesn't have.

The E120 is 103db, and the Cream is 100db, but I think the different voicings of the speakers lets the other come through loud, and clear. What 1 doesnt have, the other 1 does.