cbass wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:57 pm
yes its the way to go. better than dovetails and 10x faster
They surely would be faster, but why do you think they are better?
Because the the exposed end grain exapnds and contracts against the opposing side eventually causing the glue to fail. Probably not as much as a problem with woood that has a finish on it but on unfinished drawers I have seen a lot of faluires. I have seen plenty of broken dovetails also. Also I don't care for the look of them. I like joinery that doesn't stand out.
I HATE exposed joinery. Just a preference. Some people think it looks decorative, but I think it looks primative and busy.
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
Here's the MTM (more time than money) method. Lots of work and set-up, but probably about the same as doing finger joints time wise. Dadoing in the baffle at the same depth as the inner slot and glueing it all up makes for a really strong box. One of these days I'll have to get a router table so I can do it that fast way.
I get how miter joints with a feature for alignment make assembly easier, but the gluing surface is still all end grain. You guys do understand the problem with that, don't you?
Tony Bones wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:13 am
I get how miter joints with a feature for alignment make assembly easier, but the gluing surface is still all end grain. You guys do understand the problem with that, don't you?
well its not truly endgrain since its mitered also the two lips on thr joint provides a lot of edge grain gluing surface across the whole joint. also the wood is not expanding and contracting against opposing grains like in a box or dovetail.
I will concede that dovetails probably resist racking better non issue if you have a panel/ baffle. Also dovetails would most certainly have more shear strength
but what do i no i barely got any lurnin
Last edited by cbass on Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
They surely would be faster, but why do you think they are better?
Because the the exposed end grain exapnds and contracts against the opposing side eventually causing the glue to fail. Probably not as much as a problem with woood that has a finish on it but on unfinished drawers I have seen a lot of faluires. I have seen plenty of broken dovetails also. Also I don't care for the look of them. I like joinery that doesn't stand out.
I HATE exposed joinery. Just a preference. Some people think it looks decorative, but I think it looks primative and busy.
You know once every hundred years or so someone invents a better way to do something.
I use to piss off the oldtimers cause i was constantly coming up with better faster ways to build stuff. They'd say I've been doing this for forty years! and id say seems like you would have figured out a smart way to do it in all that time
Because the the exposed end grain exapnds and contracts against the opposing side eventually causing the glue to fail. Probably not as much as a problem with woood that has a finish on it but on unfinished drawers I have seen a lot of faluires. I have seen plenty of broken dovetails also. Also I don't care for the look of them. I like joinery that doesn't stand out.
I HATE exposed joinery. Just a preference. Some people think it looks decorative, but I think it looks primative and busy.
You know once every hundred years or so someone invents a better way to do something.
I use to piss off the oldtimers cause i was constantly coming up with better faster ways to build stuff. They'd say I've been doing this for forty years! and id say seems like you would have figured out a smart way to do it in all that time
Build ot like a bowl. Just use a tree and route it. Grow a tree into a mold the shape you want..
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
I HATE exposed joinery. Just a preference. Some people think it looks decorative, but I think it looks primative and busy.
You know once every hundred years or so someone invents a better way to do something.
I use to piss off the oldtimers cause i was constantly coming up with better faster ways to build stuff. They'd say I've been doing this for forty years! and id say seems like you would have figured out a smart way to do it in all that time
Build ot like a bowl. Just use a tree and route it. Grow a tree into a mold the shape you want..
Id use a chainsaw for that. that reminds i used to use a chainsaw to make dovetails when i used to do a lot of timber framing
Reeltarded wrote: ↑Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:17 pm
I had to repair a '47 D-28 that the owner used expnading gorilla glue to put the neck in.
OMG gorilla glue sucks. i hope you caused him some paain.everybody thought they could fix anything with it i of course no one would listen when i told them it was the worst glue ever i wonder how many instruments , furniture and other stuff had been destroyed by that crap
It took me about a week to get it apart just to start removing the damage. It expanded and broke free from however he clamped it and the neck was pushed out of the joint to one side about 1/2 off the top one side and 1/4 on the other.
Smart folk and glue ideas. He didn't clean out the joints, which in the end saved the guitar. I had to solve the hide glue in the joint and pull the glue clump and tail out in one piece blind to what I was doing based on mental telemetry and guessing.
Another hilarity was Billy had a 1923 F-5 and complained that the bridge wouldn't stay put. It kept sliding a little to the treble side with the strings he liked. This was around.. 1994 maybe. I took it over to the shop and refitted the bridge base.. but I also hacked the heada off two aluminum flathead screws and stuck them on the bridge feet with a tiny dab of super glue. When I brought it back to him he opens the case and started to have a heart attack while pooping in his pants and couldn't speak from the gasping. I waited about 3 seconds into his meltdown to say "It shouldn't be a problem EVER again!"... and then I grabbed it from him and thumped the screw heads off. lmao
Signatures have a 255 character limit that I could abuse, but I am not Cecil B. DeMille.
Pocket screws are cheating! We need old school joinery for old school tube amps.
Seriously, though, the lock miter makes a very clean looking joint, particularly if you round over. A while back I did a waterfall cab, where the top and sides were cut from one continuous piece. I did it with dovetails and it didn't do justice to the one continuous piece thing. I am wishing I had thought about the lock miter. That, and what cbass says, dovetails were time consuming and mine needed "adjustment," adding to the time. It really wasn't worth the effort.
I went with locking mitre joints on my latest cabs https://amzn.to/2mYyHeI. One is 3/4" 13-ply baltic and the other is 1" (.78" measured) poplar. The bit was perfect for the plywood in both measurements and the "locking" feature. Almost no chip out either since the bit was nice and sharp. The poplar did not fare so well because of the thickness and the bit wasn't large enough so I had to finish the edge and inseam by hand. The poplar also chipped out the locking part of the bit so there was a pretty big gap between the 45 degree joint. I used expanding gorilla glue for the task (don't shoot me) and it's holding up, really well.
Here is a picture of both joints. The black cab is poplar (Alessandro 2x12 clone), and the 13ply is going to be a Dumble style 2x12.
I will continue to use the locking mitre bit for plywood but I'll stick with a standard 45 degree if I work with poplar again in the future.
