2 x 12" half back - raw cabs

[pjd3]

I would consider this a perfect solution to a live set up, as long as it will work as expected with no funny stuff.

I just noticed that Raw cab has a 2 x 12" cab with the speakers separated by a board, with one speaker open back, the other speaker with closed back.

I've built a single channel Fender 40 watt (Robs 6L6 Blackvibe) that is working great. I'm also in the process of building a Marshall plex/2204 head from an old Bogner Alchemist chassis and cab.

What I'd ultimately like to do if there is no reason not to, is to send the Fender head to an Americanish 12" loaded in the open back end, and the Marshall plexi/2204 head sent to a British speaker loaded in the closed back end. On paper, this to me would be a terrific set up in terms of both tonal flexibility and stage ergonimics/set up time. There would be an A/B switch to naturally switch between the amps.

Do you see any reason why this wouldn't work?

Thank you!
PJD3

[Leo_Gnardo]

Sounds like an excellent plan, you'll have the Fender & Marshall tones covered. I had Raw make a head box for me a couple months ago, she's a beauty. Even better now I put some stain & urethane on it.

Reggie's way on the ball with communication via message or email. Also requires payment in advance, paypal if possible. I don't paypal so a US Postal Money Order sufficed. Within a week of $$ settlement, he had the task completed & shipped.

Raw's in Fresno, so plan on shipping costs from there.

[pjd3]

Hey thanks Leo, glad you are happy with your cab. I've heard good feedback about his work so, feeling pretty good about it.

and Yes, I picture that as a great way of covering real, uncompromised Fender and Marshall tones while still keeping a reasonable set up time and space at the gig.

Whats funny is I'm also planning on using the Fender side of things to output the Marshall reverb. Its looks like there are good solutions by tapping off the Marshall speaker into a box that converts to a line/instrument output to send to a reverb/fx then into the Low input of the Fender. I hate not hearing reverb on electric guitars so, just a moderate splash at minimum is fine. I'm really looking forward to making this all work.

Thanks again Leo - Christmas is almost here and I've been a good little boy, I think.

PJD3

[pjd3]

First of all, thank you all for the guidance through a successful Fender build that I now gig with frequently (but not since Corona),
and now coming near the end of a 6V6 Marshall plexi build - your direction has been very helpful and appreciated.

While I very well may follow right through with the initially posted plan of a half-back rawcab (one side open back, other side closed back - American speaker in open side, British speaker in close back side each speaker with its amp of "cultural origin" and A/B switch, I would like to inquire about the prospect of having a completely open back 2 x 12" with the same "amp to speaker" setup.

Not having given myself the opportunity to play around with many configurations of speaker/cab, what differences might you expect to hear between the 2 x 12" open cab and the 2 x 12" open/closed half-cab?

I was initially under the impression for wrong or right that a truly classic Celestion british classic rock tone would only be possible having a closed back cabinet thus, my idea to have my British speaker in the closed back half of a half-back cab.
But, as I explore all the types and versions of British sounding speakers along with alot of listening, I see that there is a selection of these speakers that are claimed to sound quite good or some even better in an open back cab, and some doing well in either.

This led to another concern (or "over-concern" admittedly) if a fully open back 2 x 12" cabinet would allow each of the 12" speakers to sound more optimally on their own regarding "bigness and resonance" of the tone. In other words, would the chamber separation of a half-back cabinet cause the cabinet system to respond more like two separate 1 x 12" cabinets? Or would it still resonate like a bigger cabinet with one 12" speaker? (recall, only one speaker will be active most of the time, except for some reverb spilling out of the American speaker as the British speaker is sounding). In my imagination, I just had to wonder if a fully open back 2 x 12" cab would enable each speaker a bigger, better, larger, fuller sound due to it not being acoustically constricted by a mid panel that separates it into discrete chambers.

Ha, I hope I have succeeded in explaining this accurately. That wasn't wasn't easy! But, once this is all put together, I"m going to be stuck with it for a while, at least until the next Christmas or until I win the next gear war with the wife!

Thanks everyone for your time and patience, I do realize it takes that to read through my ruminating post!

Best,
Phil (PJD3)

[norburybrook]

Phil,

here's my 2 cents:

The difference between a 2x12 and a good 1x12 cab is actually not that big, especially at reasonable volumes. I'm always surprised when I'm demoing amps at my studio that going from a 1x12 to my dumble 2x12 cab doesn't make as much difference as you'd think. So, with that in mind I'd make yourself 2 1x12 cabs , make a 1x12 sealed ported cab which will give you the thump of a British 4x12 type cab and then a semi open (oval) 1x12 for the fender amp. This is the exact same setup my friend Alan Darby used with Eric Clapton at crossroads for the same reasons

You'll have one more separate box to carry but they'll be smaller and easier than a good sized 2x12 and I feel that the half and half 2x12 is a compromise whereas two 1x12 cabs aren't.

have fun and stay safe

M

[pjd3]

Thanks norburybrook, now that's some food for thought. And see, I would have thought that it was the other way around, that the extra wood and space could have been benefit to the bigness, or largeness of the sound. But, since someone like you has actually done the experiments and I haven't..... Its something I'll have to consider. The only issue I might have is the cost for truly good 1 x 12" cabs. I"m not yet prepared to build a cabinet myself and that's why the Rawcabs looked attractive - uses good wood and is a builder with a very good reputation. Plus, I rather enjoy the process of preparing wood, choosing stain colors and doing some amateur finishing. Of course, there is always the prospect of buying a couple of 1 x 12 Rawcabs, one open and one closed. That would also give some flexibility if there was a very small gig and called for one small cabinet, and use my pedals for faux Marshall overdrive, say.

Thanks again, its really good to hear real experience from someone who has cared and done so!

Best,
PJD 3

[norburybrook]

Phil, the main reason I use a 2x12 cab generally is for power handling with certain speaker types. So for example if you like the sound of G12 65's and you're using a 100w amp then you have to use a 2x12 or you'd destroy a 1x12. If you're happy with EVM12 for example then a 1x12 is fine. There are a whole new raft of high power single 12's so it's now possible to build with a 1x12 and have the power handling/volume if you find the tone you like.

A 2x12 will have more bottom end and perhaps a better spread when you start to turn things up and on a large stage that can be fine but on smaller stages/gig you might find yourself rolling back low end on your amp compared to a 1x12.

I would imagine the split cab would have a size smaller than two single 12 inch cabs and if one is sealer then there would be no extra volume for the open one to use so, again i'd say it's not ideal compared to 2 single 12 cabs which will have a combined larger volume and be easier to carry.


M

[pjd3]

Thanks Norburybrook, lot of good considerations coming from you - Thanks!

You have put the bug in my ear for having two 1 x 12" cabs, one for the Fender amp, and the other for the Marshall 6V6 plexi.
Let me ask you this - what would you think of having a single open back 2 x 12" Rawcab for both speakers instead of a 2 x 12" half-back?
Should I find a good British speaker that works well in an open back, do you think there would be any benefit from a larger cab at all?
I know you have found that a "good" 1 x 12" can keep up fine with a 2 x 12" but, would you expect a good open back 2 x 12" using the configuration I plan on be comparable to two separate 1 x 12" 's? (as opposed to the potential volume/space compromise of a half-back) I'm still trying to see if I can get one cabinet to harbor my 2 speakers and still come out with a "not-too" compromised tone. It just seems like a nice thing to have especially for the smaller stages and also for set up time and loading. Let me know what you think! Hell, I have a decision to make soon - ha.

Also, while I'm relentlessly picking your brain - what single Celestion 12" speaker would you recommend for an open back cab that covers 60's to 80's classic rock with some versatility? Its for a 20 watt 6V6 plexi so, I'm looking at Classic Lead 80, Heritage G12H30, Creamback G1265 and I do have a Vintage 30 that originally came with my Bogner Alchemist.

Thanks so much for you time!
Phil PJD3

[norburybrook]

Phil,

Time is not a problem at the moment

the stereo/mono 2x12 would be interesting. I've not experimented with 2 different speakers in a cab but I can imagine it would have its place. I think the individual speakers would sound full but would blend together more than two separate cabs, you win some and lose some.

for an all round 12 inch speaker that seems to suit anything I'd say go with the Classic lead 80. It will handle a 50w amp nicely and it'a speaker that Joe Bonammassa swears by and became the basis of his signature model.

The G1265 is a nice speaker but new ones need quite a lot of breaking in, they sound awful at first!!!! The Classic Lead 80 sounds good from the get go but breaks in well too.

I've not used any of the other speakers you mentioned as my amps are all 50-100w so I need some headroom speaker wise. However I really love the Celestion Alnico cream, it's a 90w model so handles 50w amps great and has that lovely thing Alnico speakers have, a full sound with no harshness, so that would be on my recommended list too.

Speakers and cabs are such a personal thing so it's really down to trial and error in the end though I will say that guitar speakers/cabs are not rocket science and are quite forgiving of dimensions materials etc. I've had plenty of happy accidents making cabinets with no particular dimensions other than aesthetic ones. I recently converted a 1x12 peavey combo into a cabinet that I put a full sealed back on and used the front amp chassis hole as a port. We put a Classic Lead 80 in and it sounded great. So much so I had to make another one to match. This speaker went all the way to Dallas last year to be used with Eric Claptons guitarists at crossroads you can see the old one on the right and the new one here on stage with John Mayer.

Have fun


M

[pjd3]

Awesome, and thank you. That Classic Lead 80 has definitely been in my sights, haven't heard a bad clip from it.

Best,

Phil