Dowels for fixed baffle in a 1x12" combo?

[timrobertson100]

Hi folks

I'm a novice woodworker but have made some head cabinets. My preferred approach is to glue and screw butt joints, then remove screws once dry, drill out the screw hole, and hammer in glued dowels.

I'm looking to make my first 1x12" combo cabinet for a 22W Amplified Nation Wonderland-style build, and really like the sound when plugged into my Divided By 13 CJ11 combo - which is all baltic birch fixed baffle, glued into a (?) dado slot with no visible bracing or support.

I'm not all that confident of my handheld router abilities to do a dado.

Would the glue, screw, and then dowel approach work ok for a combo - both for the cabinet and the baffle - or would it rattle or lack strength, please?

All tips are greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Tim

[10thTx]

I would be concerned about rattling just using glued in with no slot , remove screws & insert dowels approach.

Having said that, you can cut a 1/2" x 1/2" wood strip to glue behind the baffle against the sides, top and bottom of the cab AFTER using the dowel approach. I think that would hold reasonable well and prevent rattling.

You can sort of see this idea of using the wood strip in the photo. You would just be doing it after using the dowels also.

I think I used 3/4" x 3/4" here? Whatever size it was ......... it worked out quite well. This was a conversion project taking a non-working SuperSonic 22 and converting it into a Carolina SuperSonic (borrowing Dumblish ideas around clean and OD channels)

With respect, Tubenit

[timrobertson100]

Thank you very much. I’ll consider bracing and perhaps practice dados then.

[ChopSauce]

Horizontal dowels are more likely to handle the weight.

You can combine bracing and dowels as well. That's what I did on one combo - so there's no dowel visible from the outside. This 1x10 combo is pretty light so I can not claim that it would suit your project, but your plan(s) sound fairly good to me...

Practicing dados sound like a must, anyway. Maybe you should make it your plan A and stick to it?

[Phil_S]

I think you'd get a better joint if you make a dowel reinforced butt joint, read here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_joint

By putting the dowels in at the time of assembly, they act like floating tenons. I'm not sure how much they add after you've screwed and glued. If you don't already have one, get one of those things that helps you drill straight, one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Milescraft-1312- ... 33437&th=1 You could, for example, place a dowel every 2" and make it a design feature. You need clamps to make this work. If you are using screws because you don't have clamps, don't try this.

Really, though, try to ramp up your skills and equipment. Look into getting a 45 degree mitre lock bit for the router. A mitre lock joint gives you about 3x the gluing surface, insures a square fit, and won't need any reinforcement. It will take some practice to set the bit depth correctly.

Otherwise, the recommendation for a braces glued into the corners is an excellent suggestion, easy to do, and can be made from scrap.

Making a good dado or rabbet (UK: rebate) is not as challenging as you might think. Find a good straight edge. Clamp it to the work piece and to the work table at the same time. Ride the straight edge to get a perfect cut. Remember, to avoid blow out, you should run the router backwards from the normal direction into the dado at one end or use a backer board. Buy some scrap from the cull lumber pile at HD (if you have one nearby) where it will be 70% off. You can get plenty of practice from a $5 purchase.

[timrobertson100]

Thank you all - really appreciate the advice.

Apologies for this really naive question, but since the dado slot doesn’t go all the way to the edge, and the end being “half round” do you finish it square with a chisel, or just make it slightly oversized.

[10thTx]

since the dado slot doesn’t go all the way to the edge, and the end being “half round” do you finish it square with a chisel, or just make it slightly oversized.

I'm not sure I understand this question? The photo I posted of putting in a new baffle shows a slot that the original baffle was in. (bottom left on the photo) That slot was tight and an exact fit for the original Fender baffle. Having said that, I noticed there were areas of the original baffle that were still loose and not adequately glued into that cabinet.

I don't like baffles that are glued in. I'd rather screw a baffle on to a brace, so I can change out the baffle at some point if I need to. Just a personal preference and not necessarily better.
And for me, I think the bracing is much easier and quicker to do effectively.

With respect, 10thtx

[Phil_S]

I didn't realize we were discussing the baffle. (D'oh, it IS the thread title.) My earlier comments were directed at joining the 4 pieces, uprights to the horizontal boards, to make the 4 sided enclosure with open front and back. (Discussion of butt joints.)

I don't think I'd use a dado to mount a baffle. Actually, I don't see how to easily do that. A dado will require the baffle to flex to get it in place. We don't want a baffle that flexes. Because the dado recesses are closed, then how are you going to fix the joint in place? A dado is meant to be used with scratch construction and pieces are fixed with glue and clamps. A rabbet is much more appropriate because it is open to the front and properly recessed.

To answer the wood worker's question about the rounded ends of the dado, the answer is that it depends on where it is and it's function. Typically it is squared up with a chisel. A corner chisel is really the best tool if you have one, but it is easily done with an ordinary straight chisel. It needs to be very sharp. Look on youtube if you don't know how to sharpen.

If the dado isn't going to show, you might cheat and just fill the void with epoxy resin. If you are ambitious and it doesn't affect appearance, you can round the edge of the board to fit, but I think that is too much work. There is no firm rule about what to do.

There are some pictures already posted in this thread by 10thTx showing the use of braces that hold the (new) baffle. FWIW, I think this is really the way to go. It is simple to construct. There is no need to fix it permanently to the cabinet. Use screws to fix the braces to the cabinet. You might use screws and glue, but I don't think glue is necessary. I second 10thTx's suggestion to screw the baffle to the braces without glue. If you are concerned about transmitting unwanted vibrations, put some sort of gasket or weatherstripping between the baffle and the braces before you screw it in place. No need to think about dowels.

Don't overthink this!

[10thTx]

Another example I did maybe 12+ yrs ago. Sort of a "tweed style" approach using bracing and a baffle. Very easy to do.

Nowadays, I slant the bracing more like you'd find on a Princeton Reverb so the speaker direction aims up a little bit.

All the cabinets with speakers used the same type bracing

with respect, 10thtx

[timrobertson100]

Thanks all. This has been immensely useful, and those are beautiful cabs you built 10thTx

My motivation for the glued in, fixed baffle was really that there is just something special about by /13 cab I was going to try and recreate - it sounds “huge” with big low end. My screwed in baffle cabs just don’t seem to match it to my ears. Perhaps a cab of same dimensions (it is deep) with screwed in baffle would do the same.

I’ll explore the lock mitre approach too. Thanks for that recommendation.

[10thTx]

I would be surprised if a glued in baffle sounds bigger than a braced baffle? Not sure why that would be the case?

The type of wood or plywood makes a HUGE difference in tone, just as different tone woods impact the tone of a guitar. And of course, speaker choice certainly matters.

I've used sapele, maple, pine, mahogany, and combinations of those on my cabinets primarily. However, the best sounding cabinet I ever had was baltic birch plywood & tolexed. I've used average plywood before also and have not cared for it tonally.

Yes, I think cab dimensions make a very significant difference also.

With respect, 10thtx

[timrobertson100]

Thanks. I suspect you are probably correct on the difference between bracing and glued baflle, if they are tightly coupled with screws.

The cab I like is the same as this, which is indeed all baltic birch https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... o.1981731/
I found it to sound rather different to a DR cab (tested with same speaker and amp)

When I get the time to build it, I'll post results here

[ViperDoc]

For box-end rabbets or dados, consider using a router table. They're cheap and you can just fasten your existing router underneath. A rabbeted joint is superior to any butt joint, especially when you're using plywood. You can also look at a biscuit jointer, which you can prep and glue up in one move and they're invisible.