Attenuator questions

[10thTx]

I've never played an amp with an attenuator so I have zero idea of what they are capable of doing? The YouTubes I've watched of attenuators seem to be demo-ing the attenuators at what seems to still be a moderate volume? In other words, a YouTube might show a 50watt amp with an attenuator but it sounds like the attenuator is simply dropping the volume to what might be like 12-14 watts in the YouTube and not 5 watts?

I have a friend who has a 14 watt cathode biased tube amp that is "too loud" for his home.

He is now considering getting a Plexi 50w and using an attenuator like the "Ox" to try to have something that's perhaps 5 watts or less in volume.

Q1) Would an attenuator like the OX actually reduce a 50w Plexi down to a 5 watt type volume and still maintain a good crunch overdriven tone? OR is there sort of a minimum level of
attenuation before it loses "that" bigger sounding overdrive tone? In other words, using an attenuator with a 50w amp .......... can you still keep good tone down to 5 watts OR
once you attenuate below 12 watts, it loses good tone?

Q2) Do attenuators wear out tubes or amps faster?

Q3) IF someone was going that attenuator route to reduce volume, is it worth the $$$ to get something like an OX vs. something much less expensive like a Weber Mini-mass?

Q4) IF someone was looking to get a Plexi sound at a 5 watt or so volume, do you think one could come closer to that with the attenuator OR a Plexi 50w topology but using 6BM8
power tubes (cathode biased) for maybe 7-8 watts and then using a PPIMV to further reduce the tone? In other words, go the attenuator or 6BM8 power tubes for that tone?

With respect, 10thtx

[Guy77]

Hi. I have built the Ken Fischer designed attenuator that Dr Z also sells as the Air Brake attenuator. All the info for it is here on the forum.
I was happy with the results as long as I did not drop the volume too much. I have found that it is hard to compensate for the movement of the speaker that we hear when an amp is turned up loud. Its part of the formula that is not replicated by an attenuator.
But I have to say that I did prefer the attenuator to just lowering the master volume on several Trainwreck amps I built.

There are also the attenuators that re-amplify the sound that can get you some good results I believe the Ox Box is one of them. I have also used the Ironman series of attenuators and they sound nice too.
I am sure others will chime in with more info.


Cheers

Guy

[Colossal]

I agree with Guy. The Airbrake is useful, but the feel of the amp and tone starts to suffer once you get down to Bedroom mode. It's still useful for practice at that level but the beautiful character of the amp starts to get lost. Taking a few dB off, however, it works well. I still would recommend it.

[10thTx]

Grateful for the thoughtful responses!

Thanks! With respect, 10thtx

[pullshocks]

I built one of the Marshall Forum M2 attenuators. https://www.marshallforum.com/threads/s ... ing.98285/

I think it works pretty well. With the attenuator, playing is a different sonic experience, no getting around it. But to me the amp still comes through.

The analogy I would make is that listening to an Allman Brothers CD with the stereo turned down still sounds like Duane and Dickey, but it's not the same sensation as listening with the stereo cranked.

[alnight]

I have considerable experience playing through a variety of attenuators. My observations are similar to some of those stated above, which is that they are pretty ok for a given amount of volume reduction, beyond which they kind of suck.

Additionally -

I tend to find that they are effective to a lower volume with a clean sound than they are with distortion. A high gain sound tends to start getting annoyingly buzzy right around the time the soundman stops glaring angrily at you.

I have not found one type of attenuator to sound appreciably better than another of the ones I own or have used. That said, a switched/step down design tends to have a slight edge over an infinitely variable/pot style, to my ear.

The best attenuator, and the one you are most likely to use regularly, is the one that is built into your amp. Because it is convenient.

The lower power/volume amp you start with, the lower volume you can attenuate to before it starts sounding terrible. Ten or so watts attenuated down to around two can sound just fine and still have a club owner saying you're a little bit loud. Fifty watts attenuated down to five can be too loud and sound awful.

There are a lot of different factors involved, of course. Attenuators certainly have their place, just depends on what you're going for.

Personally, for the "inside voice" situation you are describing, I'd be leaning towards the low power amp. Perhaps even as far as a 12BH7 or 12AU7 power section. Or a very high gain preamp with an ultra clean power section and a master volume for more overall flexibility.

[10thTx]

Very helpful response! Thanks! 10thtx

[Guy77]

The JTM 1 watt amps are a great example of a low watt amp. They also have an attenuator built into there design. Was thinking of building one if I ever got the time. I believe they also used a 12BH7 or 12AU7 power section.
Here is the thread on it.

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... &start=120

Here is the YouTube video of Joe B. playing the original amp.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w71tBeuLn2Y


Cheers
Guy