Overdrive Special Reverb........#60

[erwin_ve]

Thanks Dreric for sharing! Completely flabbergasted with all these "new" specimen

[Aaron]

First, the SSS
Second up, Borderline Special
Now, OD Reverb

Great stuff!!!!!

Thanks Dreric

Just noticed there is some info on PDF page 3, on OD-50WX #065.
Could it be the natural timber cab in the first pick?
Built in 23rd May '77?
25K Presence & EL34's.

[bluesbreaker62]

Thanks a lot for sharing dreric, very generous of you.

So much great new info lately, wish I could give someting back

[Structo]

As it turns out, I looked through my files and have this amp documented.

[Structo]

Losing track now....

[Teleguy61]

Thank you all!
The amount of input in the last week has my brain spinning.
Great great stuff.
This is fantastic info.

[oldmacman]

The asymmetrical plate/cathode resistors (180K/1K and 130K/1.8K) make a big difference in the sound. Ask Dogears about ODS #20...

[ampdork]

Shad
Personally I've heard both sides as well some say it sounds wonderful others not so much.. So did you actually hear the reverb on this amp or just going by what others have said..If so did you find it rather difficult to get the reverb dialed in and also did the mix balance out going from both clean and OD once you found the sweet spot..

Hey Tony.

To clarify I speak more of the placement of the circuit. We were putting reverb post loop long before these pictures showed up. So when this one did pop up I was happy to see it.

I can offer my opinion that if the reverb circuit is done properly it is going to please more ears then a pre overdrive one. Can't say this reverb does that but I know given the choice of an ODR type reverb versus what we do... no comparison.

Again too I will state that this is more natural. In my mind if you take your ods overdrive channel to the edge of the grand canyon it'll sound amazing...Now take the clean channel, send it into the canyon....now take all that sound and cram it through the overdrive...
One is acoustically possible in nature....the other is not.

all my opinions... table salt it.

[LeftyStrat]

This is so awesome. Thanks Eric!

[super100]

dreric,

Thanks for taking the time to post the information.

Henry

[Max]

I can offer my opinion that if the reverb circuit is done properly it is going to please more ears then a pre overdrive one.

Shad, AFAIR members here often posted since the existence of this board that they like the sounds Lowell George e.g. achieved with the pre overdrive reverb of his ODRS 100W. So don't you think that it's perhaps a bit bold to predict what other individuals will prefer - just based on your own personal taste?

Again too I will state that this is more natural. In my mind if you take your ods overdrive channel to the edge of the grand canyon it'll sound amazing...Now take the clean channel, send it into the canyon....now take all that sound and cram it through the overdrive...
One is acoustically possible in nature....the other is not.

IMO this argument is only valid as long as you think about the spring reverb section of a guitar amplifier only as some kind of ambience effect that shall simulate the delays present in natural ambiences.

But if you think about a guitar amplifier as some kind of musical instrument, that shall "generate" artificial sounds that artists find in their minds, than IMO it doesn't make much sense any longer to compare the "art" ificial sounds created by an artist when using the spring reverb section of a guitar amplifier as a feature of a musical instrument with the sounds present in "natural" ambiences.

And what AFAIK many guitar players like about the sound of a spring reverb (post or pre OD) is exactly that it doesn't sound like playing in Covent Garden or the Grand Canyon etc., but that it sounds artficial and may perhaps even sound weird.

So if one starts to think about a guitar amplifier as an instrument to artificially generate artificial tone and timbre your arguments are IMO no longer valid and then IMO it's just a matter of the personal taste of an individual guitar player if she/he prefers the sound of a pre OD reverb of an ODRS or the sound of a post OD reverb of an ODR - just as with Les Pauls and Strats etc.

Cheers,

Max

[boldaslove6789]

The Pre OD Reverb is not for everybody certainly. Its like taking a Fender Reverb unit and putting it in front of an ODS, thats exactly what it sounds like.

The Post OD Reverb is Lush and sits in the signal chain mucho better and is much more versatile IMO.

[Max]

The Pre OD Reverb is not for everybody certainly. Its like taking a Fender Reverb unit and putting it in front of an ODS, thats exactly what it sounds like.

IMO - and of course with some simplification – the pre OD reverb of the ODRS amps I played sounds a bit like this:

If you play clean you get an IMO great spring reverb sound. In OD mode you then get some kind of ducking effect: The more the clipped signal decays, the more prominent the reverb gets in the overall sound. After the picking attack the reverb sound is at first some kind of "ducked" because it drowns a bit in the overdrive saturation. In this stage it adds some beautifull overtones and richness but IMO isn't perceivable that prominent in the sense of "reverb" in the sense of an ambience effect. The more the overdrive saturation then is reduced while the signal decays, the more prominent the spring reverb gets in the overall sound and adds its own timbre and sustain and its typical spring reverb ambience impression. IMO this "ducked spring reverb" is a rather useful concept. I like it. For everybody? What amp or guitar or effect etc. is for everybody?

In regard to the IYO greater versatility of the post OD "ambience" spring reverb one could perhaps argue that one of todays first class digital studio delays in the loop of a Dumblelator, or in a dry / wet setup like Larry Carlton's e.g., or perhaps added later when mastering, is perhaps still more versatile?

My personal opinion in regard to the Dumble amps with a pre OD reverb and a post OD reverb I played is that both circuits can deliver great sounds but of course different ones. And so IMO it's only a matter of personal taste which one may seem to be preferable in a given musical context.

But of course you have to get used to dial in both circuits to deliver their best sounds, and this will of course need some time. But IMO some patience when approaching such a Dumble amp with spring reverb - pre and post OD - will be rewarded – just as IMO some patience when trying to get familiar with a Dumble amp will always be rewarded.

Greg, what I would like to better understand is this:

Here http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 965#188965 you posted concerning some clips of one of the pre OD reverb ODRS amps :

sounds great

Now you post:

The Post OD Reverb...sits in the signal chain mucho better.

So did you change your mind concerning the quality of the tone of the pre OD reverb ODRS amps used by Lowell George and Karl Ratzer e.g.? Or do you still think that such a pre OD reverb ODRS amp like those used by Lowell George and Karl Ratzer e.g. "sounds great", but that you personally like the post OD reverb tone of Rick Vito's or Santana's ODRs e.g. even better?

All the best,

Max

[Grog]

For what's worth, i have used my 50 watt both ways. For more contemporary music i prefer post. Old time jump blues and swing pre. The Fender reverb unit is an instrument, you have to mess with it depending on volume and breakup. Just my 3 cents.

[talbany]

In regard to the IYO greater versatility of the post OD "ambience" spring reverb one could perhaps argue that one of todays first class digital studio delays in the loop of a Dumblelator, or in a dry / wet setup like Larry Carlton's e.g., or perhaps added later when mastering, is perhaps still more versatile?

I think it maybe time for a quick reality check..I think it's cool that the ODSR is being brought to life now thanks to Eric!! however some of us should perhaps stop and think this one out before getting your panties in a wadd running right out and gather the parts to build one of these monsters.. The first question is why?.. Why would you want to build one of these amps and be saddled with basically one type of reverb when one can get with Dlator and a nice rack/verb and an ODS all different types of lush reverbs as well as have complete control over there parameters and a decent functioning master volume to boot..
So really the question still remains, does the implementation of the reverb in an ODSR (pre or post) add another dimension to the amp as a whole like say how the parallel reverb changes the tone and feel of a blackface era amp (even with the reverb off)?
I have a pretty good set of ears (if I do say so) BUT it's really hard to determine this by listening to mp3's and especially difficult in a you tube clip with a band in the mix..
I suppose if the reverb does change the tone and feel of the amp in such a way that pleases me then might possibly have some potential, however I am not going to get all worked up over an overdrive amp with spring reverb just because it says Dumble on it..

Something to think about huh!!

I remember when the Bluesmaster was unveiled and I had to build one.. I hardly play it now

Tony