Noise levels in Dumble amps?

[Mark]

I had a friend listen to the D'Lite converted the RF #0102 amp. He loved the tone of the amp but commented on the noise in overdrive mode.

I had thought the noise levels were acceptable, but my friend has built a few amp (no Dumbles) and thought the OD was a bit too noisy.

I do have to look at all the variables such as cables and mains noise. (The mains in my house is a bit weird too from time to time.)

What do you guys deem to be an acceptable noise level?

Look forward to your replies.

[Chris333]

If I can hear the noise over the non-stop ringing in my ears, it's too loud. YMMV...

[Mark]

That is funny!

I'll have to post up further info so we can quantify what acceptable.

[qtone]

Well in my case and from watching and listening here to someone play one for about 3 months straight what I can tell you is proximity with any pickup unless its noiseless can cause noise.

If I am standing or walking near my amp with guitar on its going to be noisy
the noise we all despise..

But walk away get away from the front of it and its quiet.
so quiet in my case that I forget its on sometimes.

if your speaking of noise when pab or boost is engaged or fet too,
again depending on proximity your guitar you and the front of the amp
will determine overall noise..

Do I hear some hiss when pab is on yea does it get louder when boost is on somewhat and does fet cause even more noise ? Yes

Is it unbearable and not worth it No

If you were standing 15 foot off the amp and someone else was hitting those buttons you would still hear hiss or some noise.

If say your switching system is out front on stage or away from your amp a bit enough where you and the guitar are off you will hear some hiss and perhaps gain noise if you move anywhere near that head its going to get worse..

Is the noise unpleasant when your right next to the amp with guitar on and playing within 5 foot all the time YES its bothersome and to the point where I asked is that hum present all the time ?

In this case here the amp was sitting right under the breaker box as well which can also cause alot of noise.

If the guitar being played was moved off that amp was quiet too.

I had another D style amp and found myself loving using boost pedals on the clean side and not using the lead channel at all.

That said using the boost on the lead side pushed it over the top
but once I learned how fet works you can use that as one extra stage
above pab and boost..

I found that sometimes on the lead side the boost pedal was ok
but it made more noise as it was tube and with tweaking I could do the same thing using pab and boost and fet.

The the depression set in that I did not perhaps need those boost pedals..

But I love my boost pedals.. what was the problem oh yea
noisy amps ..

I found it less noisy when I used my favorite boost pedal on the clean side of the D amp I had which was 150 watts so you can imagine any hiss with that right ?

If you did not have a D lator this noise would be LOUDER.

With the 100 watt amp I own I can use the same pedal and on clean side and get same results but I can use that on lead side too and push that side over which indeed will create more noise..

That does not have to be on all the time though and it can be built up in stages... ie turning a boost pedal on or off..

Yea its going to be hissy loud but if your playing you wont hear that only when your not playing do you really hear the difference and if you have a drummer and band or even jamming over tracks , if the volume is up I dont think you will notice it much.

Now if your not playing and its on and the mic is on your going to hear that hiss...Because it would be mic'd and standing out moreso in the mix.

Which is why I use the boost pedals with these amps to bring it up in stages which are not so unbearable.

Ie the boost might boost just a tinge too loud you cant control that out of the amp but you can using a boost pedal with a volume adjustment on it.

You might set that volume below the built in volume of the boost if it gets too loud too quick..

Sometimes with all on including boost pedal and on lead side it wont sound good cause its too much. So pab on and boost pedal might be just right where boost and pedal and pab too much..

If you do it in stages of volume this way you can back down the same way you go up and its more musical and dynamic which is a good thing I think right ?

So that might help you to bear with any hiss or noise..

I can also testify right now one bad cable in that chain can cause noise like you all cant believe and horrid noise at that which is very unwanted.

I learned these amps are so sensitive when setup correctly that they show any and all warts in your playing or any pedal you play through them.

what ever efx if in loop or before amp will show all its warts and noise levels because the amp if done right down to the old parts will present all of those un wanted sounds or not when the pedal is engaged.

Those are things I learned to deal with what ever noise there is from these amps if any and most all of it and the annoying hum or noises were caused by proximity.

Get back off your amp with your guitar or move your pedal board back off away from it and it should be quiet.

I did this last night but heard this helicopter sound coming out of the amp.
I freaked for a second wondering Transformer noise ???

No it was the chorus pedal it was on !
so soon as that was killed off

quiet amp
the further I got proximity wise away from the front of the amp
the less hum or noise I heard.

But I did hear hiss and noise because of gain.

Was that unbearable not really unless I stood not playing it for long periods
but if that is the case I turn off boost or pedal..

Was the proximity noise something id rather do without forever ?

Yes..

we heard single coils pafs and a p 90 here
they all made noise right next too the amp

One last and perhaps more important thing I learned is
lead dress can make or break you and one could move one wire
and lessen that noise by alot.

You might move two or 3 wires and make a difference which means
lead dress is most important.

Am I an amp builder or expert on these amps Not like you guys are but im learning and paying close attention even though it might not seem like it.

lastly if you were playing live with drums bass full pa and singer
on full tilt I bet you dont hear that hiss...

Not if your too busy playing to beat the band.

If its just humming while your playing though and noisy thats another issue.

Check every cable you own first outside the amp if thats the case been there too done that got in deep do do for thinking it was the amp and it was not.

Plug straight in and stand off from head go through lead side with pab on boost on then fet see how it sounds with no volume on guitar on at all.

Then play and if there is any noise or hum while your playing and its over bearing move away from the head... I know this from listening to someone else play for about 3 months here and they were right in front of the head and it hummed regardless but it was caused from proximity of guitar to head and head too breaker box.

Your power might have something to do with that too.
If your running two amps together that opens pandoras box
and if your running 3 your the devil and shall be pestered with hums and noises which you can never control.

I hope this helps..

[Mark]

Thanks for the in depth reply. The noise isn't due to the guitar as I pulled the lead out.

The mains was behaving oddly so I don't to discount that. I will take some measurement with controls set to 12 noon.

I thought the DLator would make a difference but it didn't. The issue isn't so much hum as hiss in the overdrive mod.

Watch this space and I'll post more details.

[da Geezer]

Have you tried different tube combinations? (especially the OD tube)
What type of resistors did you use? (RN65, Carbon film, Carbon comp

A recording of the clean vs OD noise levels would be helpful for the guys here to know if yours is "normal" or not....

G

[amplifiednation]

My D-clones are so quiet its hard to tell they are on - with humbuckers of course!!

[aflynt]

My #102 build hisses a lot in od at loud volumes. It's not noticeable at all live though. In my house it's noticeable. I assumed it was due to all the carbon comps I used. Using a volume pedal in the loop helps. Since the noise is all from the preamp I just lower it when I'm not playing and it's dead silent.

-Aaron

[Structo]

With any amp that has medium to high gain you are going to get hiss when turned up.

60Hz noise like Reeltarded said can be your proximity to the amp.

Walk away and turn your whole body a certain way and I'll bet you can get the noise pretty low.

[stelligan]

Turn on a vibrolux and we can talk about hiss.....
My amps get a little noisy when all gained up. Do what I do - don't stop playing long enough to hear it

[wjdunham]

These things can be made dead quite, even with the OD and boost dimed. I'd check the heaters first, make sure that if the transformer filament winding isn't center tapped that there are the appropriate 100R resistors to ground on either side, and that they are reasonably balanced.

Otherwise it's time to start moving wires around to see where the culprit is, check for unshielded signal wires running too close to power supply, possibly the wires running from the master to the FX loop jacks. Weak solder joints can cause hum as well. Take a WOODEN chopstick and poke around to see if you can hear something loose. Don't try the last one unless you know what you are doing inside an amp with lethal voltages.

Bill

[amplifiednation]

Is there a lot of noise without a guitar or cable plugged in??

[Mark]

The noise is without a guitar plugged in. My mains is a bit weird in that the guitar made a strange clicking sound (which a different amp) when I touch the strings with my fingers. I changed mains sockets and the clicking went away.

I have to find time to post some findings. I will post findings. I want to post measurements that can be measured from amp to amp. I also want to take measurements with a meter and a CRO.

Sorry for the delay.

[heisthl]

These things can be made dead quite, even with the OD and boost dimed. I'd check the heaters first, make sure that if the transformer filament winding isn't center tapped that there are the appropriate 100R resistors to ground on either side, and that they are reasonably balanced.

Otherwise it's time to start moving wires around to see where the culprit is, check for unshielded signal wires running too close to power supply, possibly the wires running from the master to the FX loop jacks. Weak solder joints can cause hum as well. Take a WOODEN chopstick and poke around to see if you can hear something loose. Don't try the last one unless you know what you are doing inside an amp with lethal voltages.

Bill

Really no hiss whatsoever with Drive and level dimed? You said "dead quiet" Never heard one that quiet unless you have an internal trimmer set really low - the nature of gain should always create some hiss when dimed, otherwise there would be no highs in your tone.

[wjdunham]

These things can be made dead quite, even with the OD and boost dimed. I'd check the heaters first, make sure that if the transformer filament winding isn't center tapped that there are the appropriate 100R resistors to ground on either side, and that they are reasonably balanced.

Otherwise it's time to start moving wires around to see where the culprit is, check for unshielded signal wires running too close to power supply, possibly the wires running from the master to the FX loop jacks. Weak solder joints can cause hum as well. Take a WOODEN chopstick and poke around to see if you can hear something loose. Don't try the last one unless you know what you are doing inside an amp with lethal voltages.

Bill

Really no hiss whatsoever with Drive and level dimed? You said "dead quiet" Never heard one that quiet unless you have an internal trimmer set really low - the nature of gain should always create some hiss when dimed, otherwise there would be no highs in your tone.

Hi Henry, good to see you posting!

I was more referring to the hum, you are absolutely correct about the hiss, unless you're running the amp inside a liquid nitrogen bath then the thermal noise will always be there

Bill