Fender HRDX to ODS Build

[GuitarsByDelaney]

For the OD, I find I need to turn the Treble trimmer down, almost to zero, and boost the mid and low trimmers a little. To set the OD entrance trimmer, first set your Volume control in clean mode where it sounds good (I like mine around noon, maybe a little more). Then adjust the OD trimmer so that you have a good sweep on the OD Drive control.

Finally, I leave my PI balance centered. My ears could not perceive a whole lot of change, regardless of setting.

This made me curious about revisiting the Tweedle Dee circuit - I'm attracted to the idea of distilling the ODS clean channel into a single channel platform as a condensed grab-n-go.

The Tweedle Dee is nothing like the clean ODS channel. There's very little true clean headroom before it starts to break up.

It's a great amp but nothing like the clean ODS.

If you're after the clean ODS then just go with the small special, that's the clean only channel of an ODS and I'm sure it would fit in a small grab and go combo.

M

I was under the impression that the tweaked 5E3 platform had more headroom, but I'm happy to be corrected. Small Special? I'm unfamiliar. Is there schematics and layouts and such here?

[JazzGuitarGimp]

The gain channel is very different from what I'm used to and I need to work with the trimmers to balance its EQ and relative output level. It's very aggressive and bright, which aren't bad things just different. Maybe it's the clarity and note definition being retained in the gain that hits my ear so differently.

Any thoughts on optimally dialing it in? I'm kinda curious about playing with the PI balance trimmer but the clean already sounds so good that I feel like I don't want to mess it up.

For the OD, I find I need to turn the Treble trimmer down, almost to zero, and boost the mid and low trimmers a little. To set the OD entrance trimmer, first set your Volume control in clean mode where it sounds good (I like mine around noon, maybe a little more). Then adjust the OD trimmer so that you have a good sweep on the OD Drive control.

Finally, I leave my PI balance centered. My ears could not perceive a whole lot of change, regardless of setting.

A little softening of the top end would definitely help balance it out, I think. Perhaps, or likely, I'm misunderstanding the gain structure of the circuit as my OD Level is 3:00 or higher with the OD similarly high, and the internal trimmer nearly maxed, to perceivably equal the same output of the clean Volume. I feel I may be doing something wrong...but my functional and/operation user issues/qualms aside the amp sounds phenomenal and I find I love the clean channel and pushing that with a fuzz or boost is nirvana.

This made me curious about revisiting the Tweedle Dee circuit - I'm attracted to the idea of distilling the ODS clean channel into a single channel platform as a condensed grab-n-go.

Hi Evan,

There are a few points in the OD section where the tone is brightened. These can be negated by removing one of two capacitors (or both). You can try lifting one end of C35. If that isn’t enough, a little less high end can also be achieved by lifting one end of C43. If you decide to keep one or both of these mods, lift the other side of the cap(s) and remove them completely. I gave you a mod by email to attenuate the clean channel by 10dB. Did you try that?

Ciao,
Lou

[JazzGuitarGimp]

double post.

[GuitarsByDelaney]

For the OD, I find I need to turn the Treble trimmer down, almost to zero, and boost the mid and low trimmers a little. To set the OD entrance trimmer, first set your Volume control in clean mode where it sounds good (I like mine around noon, maybe a little more). Then adjust the OD trimmer so that you have a good sweep on the OD Drive control.

Finally, I leave my PI balance centered. My ears could not perceive a whole lot of change, regardless of setting.

A little softening of the top end would definitely help balance it out, I think. Perhaps, or likely, I'm misunderstanding the gain structure of the circuit as my OD Level is 3:00 or higher with the OD similarly high, and the internal trimmer nearly maxed, to perceivably equal the same output of the clean Volume. I feel I may be doing something wrong...but my functional and/operation user issues/qualms aside the amp sounds phenomenal and I find I love the clean channel and pushing that with a fuzz or boost is nirvana.

This made me curious about revisiting the Tweedle Dee circuit - I'm attracted to the idea of distilling the ODS clean channel into a single channel platform as a condensed grab-n-go.

Hi Evan,

There are a few points in the OD section where the tone is brightened. These can be negated by removing one of two capacitors (or both). You can try lifting one end of C35. If that isn’t enough, a little less high end can also be achieved by lifting one end of C43. If you decide to keep one or both of these mods, lift the other side of the cap(s) and remove them completely. I gave you a mod by email to attenuate the clean channel by 10dB. Did you try that?

Ciao,
Lou

Hey Lou,

I can't seem to find any email where you mention bringing down the clean channel. Last email I found was from yesterday evening where I'd replied to your thoughts on terminal blocks and inquired about/mentioned the Tweedle Dee. I looked through every email I had and used the search function for "10dB" and "clean channel" but came up empty.

[pompeiisneaks]

This made me curious about revisiting the Tweedle Dee circuit - I'm attracted to the idea of distilling the ODS clean channel into a single channel platform as a condensed grab-n-go.

The Tweedle Dee is nothing like the clean ODS channel. There's very little true clean headroom before it starts to break up.

It's a great amp but nothing like the clean ODS.

If you're after the clean ODS then just go with the small special, that's the clean only channel of an ODS and I'm sure it would fit in a small grab and go combo.

M

I was under the impression that the tweaked 5E3 platform had more headroom, but I'm happy to be corrected. Small Special? I'm unfamiliar. Is there schematics and layouts and such here?

I was as well, I'm a bit confused... the tweedle dee has cleaner power supply and negative feedback on the second half of the second triode, giving it more clean headroom, mine didn't break up as much as I've heard the normal 5e3 does. (I haven't built or played one, but have heard the same complaint, that they break up too soon, this was why I built the tweedle dee myself). I still get great gain sounds at higher volumes but if I keep it down to maybe 4 or 5 out of 10, it was still pretty clean? I think? now my memory is feeling 'off' enough maybe I need to fire it up again and play it

Edit: Btw I'm not claiming it's anything like the ODS clean channel, just a lot cleaner than a stock 5e3

~Phil

[GuitarsByDelaney]

[/quote]

I was as well, I'm a bit confused... the tweedle dee has cleaner power supply and negative feedback on the second half of the second triode, giving it more clean headroom, mine didn't break up as much as I've heard the normal 5e3 does. (I haven't built or played one, but have heard the same complaint, that they break up too soon, this was why I built the tweedle dee myself). I still get great gain sounds at higher volumes but if I keep it down to maybe 4 or 5 out of 10, it was still pretty clean? I think? now my memory is feeling 'off' enough maybe I need to fire it up again and play it

Edit: Btw I'm not claiming it's anything like the ODS clean channel, just a lot cleaner than a stock 5e3

~Phil
[/quote]

Tweeds are awesome because they've got their own thing going on for "3D" sound while being very direct/immediate, right? The 5E3 being the most ubiquitous but perhaps arguably not the best example as it has "shortcomings" like huge bypass caps, cathodyne PI, etc. but those "shortcomings" are also part of its charm.

My point is this - it doesn't need to be the ODS clean channel, per se, because a good tweed is a great thing. Playing around with one and bumping up its headroom and NFB while, ideally, retaining its essential character, if I'm not being too ambivalent or inherently contradictory, sounds like fun and a more usable platform. At the very least a great platform for experimentation!

A fellow in another thread just posted this video, which I recall seeing a year or so ago, from a guy who modified his 5E3:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RUGgSOUKqk

I've not A/B'd it to the Tweedle Dee schematic but it's cool nonetheless and I think it sounds great.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Sorry Evan, I must be thinking of another customer. I just forwarded an email to you that explains the process for attenuating the clean channel by 10dB. Just ignore the fact that it starts off with Hi Dan.....

[pompeiisneaks]

Lou, I'm more talking about what Marcus was saying about the tweedle dee not being clean. It's not ods clean channel clean, but to my personal experience it's pretty clean for a lot of the volume range unlike what I hear about the tweeds... no?

This was where I got confused... maybe I am ... just confused

~Phil

[drew]

Small Special? I'm unfamiliar. Is there schematics and layouts and such here?

There have been a number of Small Special build threads here over the years. Here are a few:

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16916

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22723

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30859

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29979

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30629

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Lou, I'm more talking about what Marcus was saying about the tweedle dee not being clean. It's not ods clean channel clean, but to my personal experience it's pretty clean for a lot of the volume range unlike what I hear about the tweeds... no?

This was where I got confused... maybe I am ... just confused

~Phil

Hi Phil,

I somehow mislead you. Frankly, I don’t know enough about the various dumble circuits to weigh in on that part of this discussion. My only steak here is in helping Evan achieve the tone and functionality he is looking for.

Ciao,
Lou

[GuitarsByDelaney]

Small Special? I'm unfamiliar. Is there schematics and layouts and such here?

There have been a number of Small Special build threads here over the years. Here are a few:

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16916

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22723

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30859

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29979

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=30629

Awesome, thank you!

[GuitarsByDelaney]

Sorry Evan, I must be thinking of another customer. I just forwarded an email to you that explains the process for attenuating the clean channel by 10dB. Just ignore the fact that it starts off with Hi Dan.....

Hah, no worries - got it, thank you very much!