Amp Porn

[talbany]

Smitty

Good to hear from you and thanks for posting the amp!!
a Couple quik questions?..1 Why did you decide to go with all or mostly 220P Di-Films?
2 Do you notice a difference when you went with NOS CTS Pots and can you describe the difference from say an Alpha or newer CTS?
3. Did you stick with the same value OD Drive and Levels as 124?
4. Why did you decide to go with the AB Carbons? What is it that you like about them?
5. The adjustable (caps in parallel) is very cool.. Are you shifting between a Skyliner and Classic or is this something you designed?
I would be interested in playing that amp.. Cool!

Tony

[Smitty]

1 Why did you decide to go with all or mostly 220P Di-Films?
I think the early PS series caps were paper/mylar and was interested to see if there was some magic there.

2 Do you notice a difference when you went with NOS CTS Pots and can you describe the difference from say an Alpha or newer CTS?
I think anything that has a termination between metal and carbon has suffered from RoHS. I suspect that is what we are hearing in the old resisters and capacitors, as well. More tin in that termination makes things sound 'tinny'. I register it as an unevenness in dynamic response across the spectrum. Not as linear. I haven't been able to measure it though. Might be the work function of the surface of lead versus tin as electrons penetrate...

3. Did you stick with the same value OD Drive and Levels as 124?
Both are 250K audio

4. Why did you decide to go with the AB Carbons? What is it that you like about them?
Carbon comps are very linear at very high frequencies. I can't hear that high but I think there is some intermodulation with lower frequencies during transients. I think the connection between the carbon and the lead is better, but that is a hypothesis.

5. The adjustable (caps in parallel) is very cool.. Are you shifting between a Skyliner and Classic or is this something you designed?
I think I'm just playing with different values. You can configure the Bluesmaster tone stack with this setup.

I would be interested in playing that amp.
I'm flattered. I'll send it to you. There's more stuff you'll find when you get it.

[talbany]

1 Why did you decide to go with all or mostly 220P Di-Films?
I think the early PS series caps were paper/mylar and was interested to see if there was some magic there.

2 Do you notice a difference when you went with NOS CTS Pots and can you describe the difference from say an Alpha or newer CTS?
I think anything that has a termination between metal and carbon has suffered from RoHS. I suspect that is what we are hearing in the old resisters and capacitors, as well. More tin in that termination makes things sound 'tinny'. I register it as an unevenness in dynamic response across the spectrum. Not as linear. I haven't been able to measure it though. Might be the work function of the surface of lead versus tin as electrons penetrate...

3. Did you stick with the same value OD Drive and Levels as 124?
Both are 250K audio

4. Why did you decide to go with the AB Carbons? What is it that you like about them?
Carbon comps are very linear at very high frequencies. I can't hear that high but I think there is some intermodulation with lower frequencies during transients. I think the connection between the carbon and the lead is better, but that is a hypothesis.

5. The adjustable (caps in parallel) is very cool.. Are you shifting between a Skyliner and Classic or is this something you designed?
I think I'm just playing with different values. You can configure the Bluesmaster tone stack with this setup.

I would be interested in playing that amp.
I'm flattered. I'll send it to you. There's more stuff you'll find when you get it.

Thanks for the response! always good to get your opinion on some of the same parts I use just to see if we are both hearing and experiencing the same things..Wow! thanks for the offer to send the amp..I'll PM you my cell..Lets Chat

Tony

[erwin_ve]

Thanks for sharing your build Tony and Smitty!
Lots of interesting things going on both your builds.

Erwin

[norburybrook]

A lovely trio Tony.

May I ask what your 'upgrades' are? I don't think you've mentioned it.


M

[jcsifu]

Very glad you both posted those pics.

Tony, I see ceramic .002 treble caps in all 3. I would assume those are X5F , may I ask why you prefer them in that position?

[talbany]

A lovely trio Tony.

May I ask what your 'upgrades' are? I don't think you've mentioned it.


M

Thanks Marcus

The only thing I did was install new 10k NOS Piher PI balance pots on all 3 and added a few Q-lines to the low plate to see If there was any change. I also went ahead and set the balance on all 3 amps..

Tony

[talbany]

Very glad you both posted those pics.

Tony, I see ceramic .002 treble caps in all 3. I would assume those are X5F , may I ask why you prefer them in that position?

Hey Ian Right now all 3 amps have the deep switch config. Not a big fan of the Mid boost..
This is what I generally try to stick to,depending on parts available at the time
I have X5F 330's on the board as treble caps (390's are tough to find) and 250's on the bright..471 (mica)for bypass on V1B/220k and 330 bypass on the loop and 47Pf (mica) on Master and 50 Pf (ceramic) on the PI.. Snubbers are 250pf ceramic and/X5F
This generally gives me a well balanced amp all around along with a useful bright switch.
BTW. On the Music man the bright setup is on/off/on ala 183 that has I believe a 250 and a 330 in the up position and again X5F's. I generally don't have a problem with Mica caps as long as I don't apply B+ on them..I prefer the X5F's on the board B+ and in the bright position ...This is just my personal opinion!!

Hope this helps

Tony

[pompeiisneaks]

This is a lot of really great gut shots. thanks for sharing!

~Phil

[jcsifu]

Hey Ian Right now all 3 amps have the deep switch config. Not a big fan of the Mid boost..
This is what I generally try to stick to,depending on parts available at the time
I have X5F 330's on the board as treble caps (390's are tough to find) and 250's on the bright..471 (mica)for bypass on V1B/220k and 330 bypass on the loop and 47Pf (mica) on Master and 50 Pf (ceramic) on the PI.. Snubbers are 250pf ceramic and/X5F
This generally gives me a well balanced amp all around along with a useful bright switch.
BTW. On the Music man the bright setup is on/off/on ala 183 that has I believe a 250 and a 330 in the up position and again X5F's. I generally don't have a problem with Mica caps as long as I don't apply B+ on them..I prefer the X5F's on the board B+ and in the bright position ...This is just my personal opinion!!

Hope this helps

Tony

Got it. I have a .002 X5F coming soon as well as the 470's we talked about, so I will try it out too while I have amp on bench.

Thanks,
John

[talbany]

Hey Ian Right now all 3 amps have the deep switch config. Not a big fan of the Mid boost..
This is what I generally try to stick to,depending on parts available at the time
I have X5F 330's on the board as treble caps (390's are tough to find) and 250's on the bright..471 (mica)for bypass on V1B/220k and 330 bypass on the loop and 47Pf (mica) on Master and 50 Pf (ceramic) on the PI.. Snubbers are 250pf ceramic and/X5F
This generally gives me a well balanced amp all around along with a useful bright switch.
BTW. On the Music man the bright setup is on/off/on ala 183 that has I believe a 250 and a 330 in the up position and again X5F's. I generally don't have a problem with Mica caps as long as I don't apply B+ on them..I prefer the X5F's on the board B+ and in the bright position ...This is just my personal opinion!!

Hope this helps

Tony

Got it. I have a .002 X5F coming soon as well as the 470's we talked about, so I will try it out too while I have amp on bench.

Thanks,
John

John
Sounds good and keep us posted on how that turns out for You
Good Luck!
Tony

[norburybrook]

Tony,

thanks for the explanation. Can I ask your or anyone's opinion on lead dress and 'tidiness' of a build. Having now seen a lot of real Dumble gut shots you can see they're not the tidiest of builds. Some of the builds I see on TAG are truly beautiful works of art/engineering , the lead dress and component fixing is immaculate , perfectly straight lines , it sometimes looks like there's only half the components of my amps

So, knowing that HAD was a stickler for every detail does a less than tidy /perfect looking amp sound different from an engineering/perfect one? and if so in what ways? I would imagine this could also be a factor in a PCB vs a wired amp too.



M

[talbany]

Marcus
There are several schools of thought concerning lead dress..IMO A "tidy" amp does not always translate to a better sounding/ performing amp than one where everything is spread out IMO.There was a local player where I grew up who also was a genius at doing mods. Everyone went to him to get any work done and some of the best sounding amps I have ever played came off this guy's bench and his work was borderline rough to say the least..He was also an electrical engineer and knew what signal was on each wire and how to route them correctly.
HAD is kind of the same way (a little neater) likes to spread things out and follows and knows all the rules for
input signal/power and grounds/resistive,capacitive, inductive, coupling/ emitters/Magnetic fields and probably a few more These are some of the best sounding amps I have ever played period!!

On the other hand this is not to say that if Harry Joyce wired up an ODS that it wouldn't sound good,It does however prove that you cannot tell how an amp performs by how tidy it is.

What I would generally recommend is if you're a novice DIY'er and is not sure what signal is on what wire and unaware of the rules of proper lead dress and circuit constants and your building an ODS follow (exactly) the same technique Dumble did, take your time and make it as neat as possible..If your doing a Hiwatt or a Matchless study the lead dress of Harry Joyce and Mark Sampson (Study the greats and eventually become one)
If your a pro builder and know the rules great! better keep your S*#t tidy or other builders will rip you a new one..Word gets around Google quick

IMO As long as you follow the rules and laws the rest is just Eye Candy! If you don't? I don't care how neat and tidy the amp is your tone could suffer!!

BTW.. I too like staring at a wiring orgasm perfectly done and 90 degree bends is impressive indeed!!
Learn from these artists..Don't get me started on PCB's

Tony

[Aaron]

Nice builds!

Tony, could you help my OCD and have all the chassis facing all the same way though

Aaron

[talbany]

Nice builds!

Tony, could you help my OCD and have all the chassis facing all the same way though

Aaron

Thanks Aaron!!
Nope Sorry too late, however, they are all back in their cabs facing forward again..I hope this helps

T