Which Bluesmaster Should I Build?

[norburybrook]

I've heard a lot of people say they like the Blues Master clean tones. I think the Mesa Boogie SOB wasn't a good platform for a Dumble. What output transformers have you used in your builds?

A friend used a Mercury Tweed Bassman output transformer that had a great clean tone.

Mark.

I think I've used InMAdOut transformers for all 3. PT is 345-0-345 i think and I get an extra secondary tapped for the relay supply as well. Savino makes great transformers so I generally use them for all my Dumble builds.

edit: the blue one in the picture, my last, used vintage peavey iron with a FWBR and probably a B+ of 500V. It had a few extra secondary wingdings and I used one to make relay power.

here's the thread on that build.


https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31220



Here's Joey Landreth playing my first 100w BM HRM a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84COJ6rLFuw


@Dorrisant, check out the files section as Martin has added a HRM eyelet board to his board sets.

M

[dorrisant]

Got it... thanks Marcus.

[Mark]

Joey L would have been happy with that tone it is quite thick sounding. My efforts with the SOB amp produces an overdriven sound that was Marshall like but very smooth sounding.

[alkuz1961]

I've always been a little concerned about this mismatch of middle pot values

[stelligan]

I've always been a little concerned about this mismatch of middle pot values

BrownNote Blue Monkey 88 shown in this thread has a 25k mid pot....
https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32248

[Mark]

I used the 50K value in my build. The more I turned it up the less bass response I had, as a result I left the control set low for single coil guitars and higher for humbucking guitars.

[talbany]

Having been on this site now for what seems like a thousand years I think I can say that most people prefer the BM clean over the standard 3rd 4th generation amps.Dumble might have also given he used it in the Ultraphonix amps I would contribute this mainly to the hotter Marshall style PI that has more gain (less balanced) and a lot less GNFB wrapped around the power amp. The effect is a more dynamic open running output section than the earlier standard 24k tail version that was better balanced had a cleaner,smoother sound. Many of those amps also had the LNFB on V1b (TS Recovery)which gives you a cleaner flatter response. IMO the tone stack has some effect on gain but not as much as the PI seems to provide. Since the PI is a Marshall style it's going to give you a Marshall-ish type personality and of course couple this with the 34's well there you go!

IMO the BM is in it's own right a nice amp however I wouldn't necessarily put it in the "Classic" Dumble type sound as we might think of say early Carlton, Ford, Lindley, Vito, etc etc. Also IMO during the late 80's early 90's the JCM 800 sound was dominating the studios of the day and being that Dumble had to cater to the sound of the times came up with the BM to provide a product to appeal that clientele so the BM was his response. I, for the most part, would put the 2 earlier and later BM designs in completely different categories. For those Fender cleaner type players build the earlier 2nd 3rd and 4th (Classics) generation amps and for you Marshall JCM type players that want a slightly more aggressive dynamic sound with more gain then build yourself a BM and load it with the 34's and go with the Marshall style transformers and voltages.
You can, of course, start to combine different elements of both amps by swapping tubes and transformers and land you somewhere in the middle although I would recommend sticking to the parts that enhance the direction you want to go in be it a Fender style or Marshall style and if you like both then build both amps and stick to the script (Layouts) That way you have sound and direction you are going for vs combining different parts and circuits together and hoping you might maybe like the end result:? "Maybe you will, maybe you won't?

Been there done that
BTW. If you want an amp that is sort of in between a BM and a Standard?.. build a #183
Tony

[dorrisant]

All things here taken into consideration, I think I'm going to use Henry's schematic and make Tony's Layout from the first post wrap around it.

I may change the switching configuration to better suit the need. For example, I may interlock the PAB with the Boost so that they both come on at the same time, etc..

I grabbed a partial ODS Viso file that I will use to finish an as built layout that will match what I configure. Keep your eyes peeled for a build post.

Thanks to all that have chimed in!

Tony

[xtian]

Just note that the arrangement of the MV and OD Volume in the BM are different than the ODS (#102/#183 etc).

[dorrisant]

Roger that! Threw me off at first.

[talbany]

Looks good to me! The amp should be a rock Monster
The Bluesmaster is variation on the HRM circuit which has a Clean master, unlike the "Standard which when in OD has a Pot feeding another pot (ie OD vol/Master) I like the idea of the PAB on with the OD. several guy's have done this but have put toggle switches on their pedals so they can go either direction When you get the amp up and running you want to dial in the HRM stack with the PAB On and the main stack out.
The layout I did was taken from the real deal from very detailed pics of an early Bluesmaster, rumor was the amp I did had a wonderful clean sound and with the PAB on went to feedback rather easily even on clean side. Another recommendation if I can would be to use only ceramic Pf type caps in all the spots and try to shy away from using any Mica's in there. Dumble also used both PS6 caps and MPP drops in different builds depending on the customers ears. If you want to head in the "Marshall' type sound go with the MPP's they are a bit smoother and tighter sounding than the PS6 Drop poly' caps in the HRM stack. Also Looks like Henry replaced the V1B coupler from a .02 to a .01 to tighten it up a bit? my guess would be since it was a 50w..I personally prefer the 02 there! Just so you know.

BTW. it sounded to me like Landreth's BM had Mpp's in his

There you go! Good Luck

Tony

[norburybrook]

Looks good to me! The amp should be a rock Monster
The Bluesmaster is variation on the HRM circuit which has a Clean master, unlike the "Standard which when in OD has a Pot feeding another pot (ie OD vol/Master) I like the idea of the PAB on with the OD. several guy's have done this but have put toggle switches on their pedals so they can go either direction When you get the amp up and running you want to dial in the HRM stack with the PAB On and the main stack out.
The layout I did was taken from the real deal from very detailed pics of an early Bluesmaster, rumor was the amp I did had a wonderful clean sound and with the PAB on went to feedback rather easily even on clean side. Another recommendation if I can would be to use only ceramic Pf type caps in all the spots and try to shy away from using any Mica's in there. Dumble also used both PS6 caps and MPP drops in different builds depending on the customers ears. If you want to head in the "Marshall' type sound go with the MPP's they are a bit smoother and tighter sounding than the PS6 Drop poly' caps in the HRM stack. Also Looks like Henry replaced the V1B coupler from a .02 to a .01 to tighten it up a bit? my guess would be since it was a 50w..I personally prefer the 02 there! Just so you know.

BTW. it sounded to me like Landreth's BM had Mpp's in his

There you go! Good Luck

Tony

Tony, everyone.

here's the guts of Joey Landreths BM. It was my first BM build and still going strong

Joey Landreth BM.jpg

M

[talbany]

Marcus
That's cool!! however, I was referring to this Landreth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MENVyieB8rY

Tony

[dorrisant]

Dumble also used both PS6 caps and MPP drops in different builds depending on the customers ears. If you want to head in the "Marshall' type sound go with the MPP's they are a bit smoother and tighter sounding than the PS6 Drop poly' caps in the HRM stack.

Great to know, but where do I source them? Anyone? I mean, I want to use those, but if I can't find them at a reasonable price, would there be any joy in using something else. Would Sozo mustard caps in the HRM get close? I'm assuming the PS6s would have went in all of the other locations. Again, what would be a viable substitute for those?

I have already started drawings for a board set. I'm using your layout as a guide but there is some final tweaking to do. I can see a final (enough to get started) layout in the next week or two.

I'm starting to get that feeling again.

[alkuz1961]

I think MPP is just OD 715/716 series
If you need any board drawings, I can send them to you in any convenient format. There are also detailed photos of all the stages of my Bluesmaster build, of course if it can be useful.