Robben Ford's amps / follow-up

[Max]

Max wrote:

The technical specs of "the RF amp" given here in this thread, are those of the "green switches - green light" ODS that now resides in the tan head cabinet ("Amp 1" in my post). Did I get it right now?

talbany wrote in this post http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 127#132127 :

I believe so Yes!

We know the green light amp resided in the Black head during the early 90's and used this one during the end of the Blue line years before Tiger Walk era..Where he he may have taken delivery on the gold script model and used that one more often than the green light one .. He then went back to the green light amp after the tan head switch and started using it again around 2002 time frame..

Tony,

according to page 154 of Aspen’s book (4th edition) RF owned Amp 2 (the "gold script" one) already in 1993 (and perhaps even before?).

talbany wrote::

The question here is is the green light amp the same as what was in the suede cab W/vox grill cloth or was this a completely different amp..Anybody!!.. Also does anyone know the serial on the green light amp?

Tony, there are (at least) two possibilities AFAIK:

Possibility A:

Amp 1 (the green light one) is his first ODS from 1982 and was at first in the Vox grill cabinet and then went into the black cabinet.

Possibility B:

Amp 1 and the "Vox grill" amp are two different ODS, and Amp 1 is not the one he got in 1982 but one he got later.

This we know for sure concerning this question:

- the black cabinet Amp 1 resided in for at least some time is not a 1982 cabinet: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... umble1.jpg

- a 1982 head cabinet would look similar to this one in its overall structure: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 501238.jpg

- there are late eighties amps - like #182 here http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 461684.jpg that look very similar to Robben’s "green light amp" and still have the "DEEP" label, too.

Perhaps "possibility A" is a bit more probable: Coloured EQ switches would be a bit unusual for a late eighties amp and as you can/could see on the gut pics of #183, the Sprague Q-line resistors are not that often found in late eighties amps - and Brandon found "Sprague Q-line resistors throughout" in the green light amp.

But on the other hand a Peavey PT in a 1982 ODS would be a bit unusual, too, AFAIK, but it could have been changed of course at some later point.

So Tony is right, and it would be great, if someone should know the series # of the green light amp or could confirm otherwise if this "green light/switches ODS" is Robben’s first ODS from 1982 or if it is another and perhaps later amp?

All the best,

Max

[Frankie]

Why don`t someone ask Robben Ford about his amplifiers, instead of this maybe research.
Or is he hard to reach!
Frank.

[talbany]

Max
David on the Gold Script Combo amp!!

- There are very little differences between the amps themselves. The combo was made from Robben's old back up rig, whose differences are minor & mostly mechanical.

- Tone wise, Robben & Alexander say the ampheads are identical. Robben, and I, were looking for portability when we had the combo built.

- Alexander has had the O/D head at his place for the last 2 weeks making some "cosmetic" changes that Robben has desired for awhile, the most obvious being it's color. I pick it up tommorrow and will fill you all in soon.

- Speakers are still in flux. I will address this and your other questions soon at the RF Pass.
_________________

Dave talks here briefly about the amp having some sonic problems early on
"There is only one time I can think of where a "thin" criticism would be rightly applicable and that was briefly at the beginning of the combo's first Euro tour when we used it in conjunction with a Fender Twin and could not get it to sound right, till we discovered that when the setup was wired correctly, the Twin amp itself was built out of phase with the Dumble. I compensated for that and then Robben was quite happy with his sound. But over time, Robben has remained happy with the overall sound and performance of his combo. And any guest musicians who use it are consistently delighted with it."

I take both amps to Alexander regularly, who plays them himself and then runs them thru a battery of tests and then tweaks whatever needs to be tweaked, tests them again and then plays them again, till he gives them a final approval.

Robben has tried the new Celestion 65's and didn't like them. The low end was missing. The Celestion 100's were the ones Robben liked in the combo, but they kept imploding on us. Currently we've been using Celestion 75's for his 2-12 and a specially modified Eminence in the Combo.

Dave on when Robben started using Dumbles

_________________Robben has told me that he started using the Dumble in the early 80's. Exactly when he doesn't remember, but he did say to me once that it might have been on the 1983 Kazu Matsui Project album, Standing On The Outside. Okay....here's a bit more of "that" interview with Robben that appeared in Guitarist Magazine right after "Talk To Your Daughter" was released. It speaks directly to some of the subject matter arising here:

1984 guitar player interview


Interviewer: How did you get the guitar sound?

Robben: Well, the lion’s share of all the guitar work on that record is through the Dumble Overdrive Special amplifier, and important to that is the 212EV cabinet that Howard Dumble built for me. I discovered at Montrose a couple of days ago how important a cabinet is – I mean, it’s half your sound….half your amplification anyway, so I really missed not having it there, I used this guitar, it’s called the Fender Ultra Esprit….do you know it?

Interviewer: It’s like a double-cutaway Les Paul….

Robben: That’s right, three quarter size body. It’s got sound chambers in it and a pickup splitter. That’s the guitar through the Dumble amplifier and the only exception is the song called “Getaway”. I did the guitar overdub in New York and we just used whatever amplifiers were available there – I think I used a couple of twins in stereo.

===============================================
Larry's FOH tech/tour manager, Rick, and I just worked together with Robben in Las Vegas this last weekend.
Rick told me he is the one who installed the 5881's in Robben's tan Dumble head last year.
He told me that when he spoke with Alexander at the time, though Dumble usually suggested 6L6's, he this time around recommended changing to the 5881's (which tend to sound a bit darker) because he was not happy with the quality of pretty much any of the 6L6 brands currently available.

.

Tony
_________________

[Max]

Hi Tony,

thanks a lot.

Here some links to the sources:

http://www.online-discussion.com/Robben ... ?p=821#821

http://www.online-discussion.com/Robben ... =1838#1838

http://www.online-discussion.com/Robben ... =1882#1882

According to all these sources:

- he got his first ODS in 1982. By this it will most probably have been a 4th generation "low plate classic" in the series number range between 80 and 110.

- he used his first ODS for the first time for the recording sessions of this album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8_p3wK6beg

- he used his first 4th generation "classic" ("low plate" most likely) ODS for all the tracks of "Talk To Your Daughter" with the exception of "Getaway". Cabinet was a Dumble 2x12”.

Now the videos, where everyone can use his own eyes and ears:

1988 – Carson show promo gig for TTYD / 4th generation in an early 80ies cream cabinet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWgRdBGHFh4

1988 – Live in Europe / 4th generation in an early 80ies "Vox grill" cabinet / Marshall 4x12” (probably rented): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUbf8FOu2ek

1989 – Live in Europe / 4th generation in an early 80ies "Vox grill" cabinet / Dumble 2x12” cabinet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiz30Hzhta4

1993 – Live in Europe / 4th generation (?) ODS in a current style black cabinet / Marshall cabinet (probably rented): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrgG18-bgB8

2007 – Live in Europe / "green light" ODS in current style tan cabinet / matching Dumbe 2x12” cabinet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Oeoz725hU

On his homepage is a video ("video" section) with a cream head and a matching Dumble 4x12”. Click on: "He Don’t Play Nothin’ But The Blues – music video – The Blue Line": http://www.robbenford.com/RobbenFordMain.html

And a "bonus track": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ctd5Jrch0

Sorry, but up to now I did not find a video with the "green combo" clearly visible.

All the best,

Max

[dogears]

Why do we keep rehashing Daved's commentary? It is not always accurate and it is also stale. Rick Wheeler is the current tech and is a very knowledgeable gear head!

Case in point, Robben loves the new Celestion G12-65 reissues. Things change and I would only trust current comments by Rick or Brandon.

[ayan]

Why do we keep rehashing Daved's commentary? It is not always accurate and it is also stale. Rick Wheeler is the current tech and is a very knowledgeable gear head!

Case in point, Robben loves the new Celestion G12-65 reissues. Things change and I would only trust current comments by Rick or Brandon.

Scott, have you seen Rick's description of LC's dumble in one of the videos at LC's website? I am not suggesting he doesn't know about Robben's gear, but it looked to me as if he was at an absolute loss about LC's ODS amp. If you dig through the videos in mr 335 TV, you will run into one where Rick provides a description of the Level and Ratio controls. If my memory serves me well, the ratio control is said to affect the tone of the overidrive "channel."

Cheers,

Gil

[Max]

Why do we keep rehashing Daved's commentary? It is not always accurate and it is also stale. Rick Wheeler is the current tech and is a very knowledgeable gear head!

Case in point, Robben loves the new Celestion G12-65 reissues. Things change and I would only trust current comments by Rick or Brandon.

Hi Scott,

what precisely of the contents of the posts of Tony and me is wrong?

Cheers,

Max

[dogears]

You quoted a big one. Robben is endorsing and loves the new Celestion G12-65. Posting 5 year old comments regarding whether he likes a proto or not is confusing. It is old history and serves no purpose other than add to disinformation.

I think this type of heresay info should be on point and pertinant. Such as commentary regarding what amp was used on a session. Not that 8 years ago RF did not like this tube or that tube. Or that Dumble likes 5881 over some tubes. When? What tubes? Heresay..... Maybe he recommended them since they are almost indestructable and not for tonal reasons. One of the Tung Sols had redplated and that is when the 5881s went in.

If the amp is for home use or light gigging, maybe Dumble would recommend NOS Sylvania. Who knows...

Why do we keep rehashing Daved's commentary? It is not always accurate and it is also stale. Rick Wheeler is the current tech and is a very knowledgeable gear head!

Case in point, Robben loves the new Celestion G12-65 reissues. Things change and I would only trust current comments by Rick or Brandon.

Hi Scott,

what precisely of the contents of the posts of Tony and me is wrong?

Cheers,

Max

[Max]

You quoted a big one. Robben is endorsing and loves the new Celestion G12-65. Posting 5 year old comments regarding whether he likes a proto or not is confusing. It is old history and serves no purpose other than add to disinformation.

I think this type of heresay info should be on point and pertinant. Such as commentary regarding what amp was used on a session. Not that 8 years ago RF did not like this tube or that tube. Or that Dumble likes 5881 over some tubes. When? What tubes? Heresay.....

OK, I see that we indeed think different about a methodological question, but such a kind of meta discussion seems to be too much off topic for my personal taste. I don't have any problems with older information as long as I know from when they are. And all the posts of Daved in the "Daved Zone" give a date.

So in this we disagree, no problem.

All the best,

Max

[dogears]

No problem Max!! I just think the whole 1265 bit got to me.... RF had sampled an early proto and did not dig it. Celestion then got it right and sent new ones along and RF loved them and endorses them. I really saw no point to post misinformation like that. It is out of context. No?

Just a stickler for the facts!

Cheers....

You quoted a big one. Robben is endorsing and loves the new Celestion G12-65. Posting 5 year old comments regarding whether he likes a proto or not is confusing. It is old history and serves no purpose other than add to disinformation.

I think this type of heresay info should be on point and pertinant. Such as commentary regarding what amp was used on a session. Not that 8 years ago RF did not like this tube or that tube. Or that Dumble likes 5881 over some tubes. When? What tubes? Heresay.....

OK, I see that we indeed think different about a methodological question, but such a kind of meta discussion seems to be too much off topic for my personal taste. I don't have any problems with older information as long as I know from when they are. And all the posts of Daved in the "Daved Zone" give a date.

So in this we disagree, no problem.

All the best,

Max

[talbany]

I thought we were discussing the history of Robben's amps..

[dogears]

Yep...

I guess my point was that if something clearly is not true anymore then maybe an inserted note would be nice. Clearly the 1265 bit was way out of context. All I'm saying.

I thought we were discussing the history of Robben's amps..

[talbany]

Yep...

I guess my point was that if something clearly is not true anymore then maybe an inserted note would be nice. Clearly the 1265 bit was way out of context. All I'm saying.

I thought we were discussing the history of Robben's amps..

Cool!!.. Here is the clarifying post on the 65's.. Sorry if I confused anyone!!
On to more history!!

http://www.online-discussion.com/Robben ... =celestion

Tony

[dogears]

Thanks!!!

Yep...

I guess my point was that if something clearly is not true anymore then maybe an inserted note would be nice. Clearly the 1265 bit was way out of context. All I'm saying.

I thought we were discussing the history of Robben's amps..

Cool!!.. Here is the clarifying post on the 65's.. Sorry if I confused anyone!!
On to more history!!

http://www.online-discussion.com/Robben ... =celestion

Tony

[makrisp]

Max,

Could you shed some light on this amp in the attached video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvFsvmoUsnI

Thanks
Paul