Eric Johnson's original Overdrive Special?

[Max]

Max, the 'very early...' amp being referred to is a recent acquisition for Eric. He had sold ALL of his Dumbles at one point (by the late '90s), and sometime in the last few years picked this 'very early..' amp up used, either through Dumble himself or otherwise.

Nix, I see. So David referred to the early ODS proto Greg was talking about and not the early Odyssey from Tony's post. Thanks for the clarification.

Concerning this "very early" Dumble guitar amp: Does someone here know the first source of this info like an interview or something? Or is there perhaps a video where you see such an old Dumble guitar amp, or where else and in what context was this info first made public?

Cheers,

Max

[groovtubin]

Max, the 'very early...' amp being referred to is a recent acquisition for Eric. He had sold ALL of his Dumbles at one point (by the late '90s), and sometime in the last few years picked this 'very early..' amp up used, either through Dumble himself or otherwise.

Nix, I see. So David referred to the early ODS proto Greg was talking about and not the early Odyssey from Tony's post. Thanks for the clarification.

Concerning this "very early" Dumble guitar amp: Does someone here know the first source of this info like an interview or something? Or is there perhaps a video where you see such an old Dumble guitar amp, or where else and in what context was this info first made public?

Cheers,

Max

in an 84 guitar player mag ( i blv anyways) , he quoted something like this, itsa twin with ALOT of voltage running thru it! The LEAD sound i NEVER got like that w/my early 70`s marshalls, tubescreamers, AND a 74 Les Paul, w/beefy bridge, it SOUNDS pract dead on to the lead sound on Tones, its ON FIRE............ Even sounds like it`s getting away from him on the SOLO, listen!! Since Nix says it IS the Marshall, its DEF TWEAKED!! NO way that is stock, V Halen never had a sound like that!

[Max]

The more I think about it, it may have been delivered as late as early '85. He may have gotten the SSS late '83 and the ODS anywhere in between up to the start of the 'Tones' sessions.

Does someone know when the "Tones" tracks reportedly recorded with an ODS have been recorded? AFAIK "Tones" was released in '86 - so perhaps in '85 or some even earlier?

@groovtubin:

AFAIU the previous posts EJ got this (whatever kind of) "very early" Dumble guitar amp at some point in the last years and not already in the early eighties. In the early/mid eighties he got his usual ODS with some special low Q parts tweaks AFAIU Tony's post concerning this.

Cheers,

Max

[talbany]

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:19 am Post subject:
nix wrote:
The more I think about it, it may have been delivered as late as early '85. He may have gotten the SSS late '83 and the ODS anywhere in between up to the start of the 'Tones' sessions.


Does someone know when the "Tones" tracks reportedly recorded with an ODS have been recorded? AFAIK "Tones" was released in '86 - so perhaps in '85 or some even earlier?

Max

In what turned out to be the greatest roadblock to his career, Johnson singed an exclusive six-year contract with Lone Wolf Productions in 1977. After cutting his debut album, SevenWorlds, Johnson had to wait while Lone Wolf rejected offers from some smaller record companies and tried to land a more lucrative deal with a major label. The album was never released and, since Lone Wolf had no long-range plans for Johnson’s development as an artist, he was left pretty much in limbo for the duration of his contract. Further hampering his career was Lone Wolf’s strategy to keep Johnson out of the public eye in order to increase his "mystique."

When his contract terminated in 1984, Johnson got back into action by becoming part of the lineup on Austin City Limits, a popular venue for musical performers in his hometown. Rumor has it that his playing caught the attention of the rock star formerly known as Prince, who advised Warner Brothers, his label, to sign up Johnson. By 1985 Johnson was working on an album for Warner’s Reprise label, with producer David Tickel.

In 1986 the public got its first exposure to Johnson’s mastery with his Tones LP.. Warner Brothers did not promote the album heavily and it sold only around 50,000 copies. The figures did not live up to the label’s expectations, and Johnson’s contract was allowed to lapse.

Tones, which was recorded and mixed in only two months AFAIK..

Tony

[groovtubin]

Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:19 am Post subject:
nix wrote:
The more I think about it, it may have been delivered as late as early '85. He may have gotten the SSS late '83 and the ODS anywhere in between up to the start of the 'Tones' sessions.


Does someone know when the "Tones" tracks reportedly recorded with an ODS have been recorded? AFAIK "Tones" was released in '86 - so perhaps in '85 or some even earlier?

Max

In what turned out to be the greatest roadblock to his career, Johnson singed an exclusive six-year contract with Lone Wolf Productions in 1977. After cutting his debut album, SevenWorlds, Johnson had to wait while Lone Wolf rejected offers from some smaller record companies and tried to land a more lucrative deal with a major label. The album was never released and, since Lone Wolf had no long-range plans for Johnson’s development as an artist, he was left pretty much in limbo for the duration of his contract. Further hampering his career was Lone Wolf’s strategy to keep Johnson out of the public eye in order to increase his "mystique."

When his contract terminated in 1984, Johnson got back into action by becoming part of the lineup on Austin City Limits, a popular venue for musical performers in his hometown. Rumor has it that his playing caught the attention of the rock star formerly known as Prince, who advised Warner Brothers, his label, to sign up Johnson. By 1985 Johnson was working on an album for Warner’s Reprise label, with producer David Tickel.

In 1986 the public got its first exposure to Johnson’s mastery with his Tones LP.. Warner Brothers did not promote the album heavily and it sold only around 50,000 copies. The figures did not live up to the label’s expectations, and Johnson’s contract was allowed to lapse.

Tones, which was recorded and mixed in only two months AFAIK..

Tony

IMO, they should RE-release it! Best album ever! SO soulful........

jim

[Max]

By 1985 Johnson was working on an album for Warner’s Reprise label, with producer David Tickel.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. If the "Dumble ODS tracks" on "Tones" have been recorded in 1985 IMO it is most probable that at this point in time his ODS with this "low Q parts" still was in its original "classic" condition and not yet updated to skyline specs. I've never heard of or seen such an early skyline update.

BTW: Many "classic" and "pre-classic" ODS amps never have been updated because not all of the at least 130 owners of a "classic" or "pre-classic" ODS lived near LA or/and had a close "service relationship" to Alexander Dumble. AFAIK such a kind of update usually was a part of some service and/or the result of a close relationship between Alexander Dumble and the owner/user.

All the best and take care,

Max

[talbany]

By 1985 Johnson was working on an album for Warner’s Reprise label, with producer David Tickel.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. If the "Dumble ODS tracks" on "Tones" have been recorded in 1985 IMO it is most probable that at this point in time his ODS with this "low Q parts" still was in its original "classic" condition and not yet updated to skyline specs. I've never heard of or seen such an early skyline update.

BTW: Many "classic" and "pre-classic" ODS amps never have been updated because not all of the at least 130 owners of a "classic" or "pre-classic" ODS lived near LA or/and had a close "service relationship" to Alexander Dumble. AFAIK such a kind of update usually was a part of some service and/or the result of a close relationship between Alexander Dumble and the owner/user.

All the best and take care,

Max

Thanks for the info back!!.. If we go back a bit further 1983. The truth of the story is that Richard Mullen discovered the Dumble effect when Stevie used the famous "velvet glove" to record Texas Flood at Jackson Browne's studio. Richard was so impressed with the amps that he had Alex build an entire array of gear for Chris Geppert aka Christopher Cross who at that time was riding high and had unlimited funds. Chris bought these Dumbleland 300w ...for rhythm and an overdrive or 2, and I think that this where Ej really first became interested. Chris and Ej were always exchanging amp and guitar ideas. Amigo was where the Chris X records were made and our engineer Chet Himes and some business partners had bought the studio from Warner Bros. Alexander had a shop there."..So looks like Eric may have taken delivery around 1984 or early 85..I believe the SSS came shortly there after or perhaps Chris lent him a Dumbleland for the Tones sessions but I have no proof of this.. Maybe someone else knows..BTW Judging by the time frame mentioned..Any Idea what serial # Eric would have received.. Perhaps a close guess

Also.. If you think about Chris Cross was responsible for SRV getting #1 guitar and Eric's introduction to Dumble amps.. Give the man a prize!!
I hope this helps!!

Tony

[Max]

..So looks like Eric may have taken delivery around 1984 or early 85..

Hi Tony,

I know some amps with '84 yellow sprague caps that have series numbers in the #12X range.

Thanks for all the additional info!

Max

[Billion81]

Do you guys know what amps EJ was using during the Electromagnets era. That Hawaiian Punch cut has some really cool Beck like tones but a bit tighter.

Just curious. My band opened for EJ when he was touring to support AVM. Sound on the stage was awful. I know Moss (Brownnote) got to play his rig as his band also opened for EJ and commented that the rig sounded so awful on the stage as there was so much delay and swirl it was not what he was expecting at all.

I didn't play his rig but was there for soundcheck and on stage I heard the same horrible clangy tones but was blown away out in the audience.

Weird stuff

[nix]

The Electromagnets amp was mostly the '69 Super Bass. I know he occasionally used an original Boogie, but the Marshall was used most often.

[nix]

By 1985 Johnson was working on an album for Warner’s Reprise label, with producer David Tickel.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the info. If the "Dumble ODS tracks" on "Tones" have been recorded in 1985 IMO it is most probable that at this point in time his ODS with this "low Q parts" still was in its original "classic" condition and not yet updated to skyline specs. I've never heard of or seen such an early skyline update.

BTW: Many "classic" and "pre-classic" ODS amps never have been updated because not all of the at least 130 owners of a "classic" or "pre-classic" ODS lived near LA or/and had a close "service relationship" to Alexander Dumble. AFAIK such a kind of update usually was a part of some service and/or the result of a close relationship between Alexander Dumble and the owner/user.

All the best and take care,

Max

Thanks for the info back!!.. If we go back a bit further 1983. The truth of the story is that Richard Mullen discovered the Dumble effect when Stevie used the famous "velvet glove" to record Texas Flood at Jackson Browne's studio. Richard was so impressed with the amps that he had Alex build an entire array of gear for Chris Geppert aka Christopher Cross who at that time was riding high and had unlimited funds. Chris bought these Dumbleland 300w ...for rhythm and an overdrive or 2, and I think that this where Ej really first became interested. Chris and Ej were always exchanging amp and guitar ideas. Amigo was where the Chris X records were made and our engineer Chet Himes and some business partners had bought the studio from Warner Bros. Alexander had a shop there."..So looks like Eric may have taken delivery around 1984 or early 85..I believe the SSS came shortly there after or perhaps Chris lent him a Dumbleland for the Tones sessions but I have no proof of this.. Maybe someone else knows..BTW Judging by the time frame mentioned..Any Idea what serial # Eric would have received.. Perhaps a close guess

Also.. If you think about Chris Cross was responsible for SRV getting #1 guitar and Eric's introduction to Dumble amps.. Give the man a prize!!
I hope this helps!!

Tony

It just hit me:
The Dumble in Tommy Taylor's story would have been the Overdrive Special. The story of the delivery seems to take place after Eric got his deal with Warners. The ACL appearance (at which point he already had his SSS) was a good bit before that...in fact, was the impetus for Prince to encourage Warners to sign him in the first place.

Max, have you managed to dig up any more info?

[thyx]

"Well...interestingly enough I remember when he got it. Alexander had finished it finally and Ej was playing through it and it wasn't exactly what he had in mind...we were at his old shop in N. Hollywood at Amigo studios if I recall. He listened to Eric's comments and said oh...and he got a little pad out and wrote some things on it and sent Jerry Holmes to Radio Shack...in about 20 minutes after Jerry got back Alex had it up and running...after soldering like crazy...Ej plugged it in and it was like totally Ej...eric said what did you do...??? Alexander basically said.....you like crummy parts... My parts have too close of tolerances for what you are going for so I just got some parts with really sloppy wide tolerances and put them in some of the key places...and he kind of grinned."

I'm pretty sure this refers to his old SSS...not an ODS.

[thyx]

Also, for clarification, Eric's primary lead setup (the one that would have occasionally been occupied by the Overdrive Special) used a '69 Super Bass with a Tube Driver (or sometimes an 808 Tube Screamer) and Echoplex (this Super Bass has since died and been replaced with various plexi's). The Fuzz Face is used in his dirty rhythm setup (SSS earlier onin conjunction with another TS808; Marshall plexi with 6L6's intsalled more recently) as an additional lead tone.
That Fuzz Face into the SSS was unforgettably cool! I've still not gotten over playing through it.
Digressing back to the ODS...
If anyone has a scan of this photo from the Aspen Pittman book, that would help our archeological search.

EJs stuff changes a lot. Tommy remembers some things very well, but is a bit fuzzy on other things. Tommy is/was at times like EJs gear buddy...I think it was Tommy who convinced Eric to try the D120s for his clean sound.

I believe there was a TS808 always on for the SSS (back in the rack, not on the pedal board)...a second one (or a FF) was kicked on for more of a lead tone. With the exception of the ODS, his lead chain (into the Marshall), during the Tones era, went something like this: wah>TC electronic sustain/parametric EQ>Fender spring-reverb unit (yeah, that's right)>echoplex (yeah, that's right too)>tube driver (or TS808)>Marshall head. He stripped it down to Echoplex>tube driver>Marshall on the next album...moving the wah to the SSS, I believe. He was always mixing things up in the studio, though. "Righteous" (Ah Via Musicom) was TS808>tube driver>Marshall head, for example.

Yeah, I'm an EJ geek.

[thyx]

Tones, which was recorded and mixed in only two months AFAIK..

Tony

The first time, or the second time? IIRC, he recording the whole album twice.

[thyx]

...So looks like Eric may have taken delivery around 1984 or early 85..I believe the SSS came shortly there after or perhaps Chris lent him a Dumbleland for the Tones sessions but I have no proof of this.. Maybe someone else knows..

Erics SSS was featured on the Tones tune "Off My Mind". Prominently during the chorus...the crunch chords that hit you in the gut. I believe he was using EVM12Ls in a Marshall 4x12 at the time.