brentm wrote:people want hand-wired amps. They want to look inside and think "someone spent the better part of their day making each individual connection.
AFAIK there are at least some famous exceptions:
AFAIK SRV, Colin James, Henry Kaiser, Todd Sharp, David Lindley, Larry Carlton, Kirk Hammett, Eric Johnson, John Mayer and all the other players who used and use a Dumble SSS or a Dumble ODS 150W didn't have any kind of psychological, philosophical, ethical or whatever problem, that spoiled their fun when playing a Dumble SSS or a Dumble ODS 150W, that AFAIK all have a PCB preamp and a PCB power amp. AFIK even the preamp and the power amp of SSS #001 is already done completely on a PCB.
Cheers,
Max
Are you thinking point to point circuit? Not printed circuit board???
I'm only saying that people want "boutique" point to point circuits in their high dough amps.
Nope, Max is right, most Dumble SSS's are PCB amps. Infact, HAD used PCB construction on a bunch of amps for pre amp and power supply boards.
The Steel String Singer, any later serial # Overdrive Special, just about every Dumbleator made, Manzamp are all made with is PCB's
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Last edited by boldaslove6789 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
I see the main advantage of PCB in this case would be to squeeze all those wanted features into one head unit a little more efficiently. Heads are fine but I avoid PCB combo amps. The boutique amp market for sellers (and buyers) must be brutal. I'm just glad I roll my own now.
Nope, Max is right, most Dumble SSS's are PCB amps. Infact, HAD used PCB construction on a bunch of amps for pre amp and power supply boards.
The Steel String Singer, any later serial # Overdrive Special, just about every Dumbleator made, Manzamp are all made with is PCB's
You probably have access to information I don't. I can't find a Dumble ODS with a PCB preamp board in a picture. I do see some copper clad boards that were etched for the power supply boards (0234). Overall these seem to be a minority and were likely the result of addressing the same issues of shortening production times. At least he could whip out and populate several boards at a time and have them on deck for the next customer.
I don't have any gut shot pictures of SSS, but I believe you. I'm sure he was excited about the prospect of saving time in production.
Back to Quinn. His amps sound great!!! I have no idea what business is like for him. If this is his day job or something he does on the side, I don't know. I'm just speculating on the market demand and making some rather large assumptions based on what I've seen. I hope that they don't offend anyone or put any doubt in anyones mind. I'm sure he knows his business better than anyone else.
brentm wrote:I can't find a Dumble ODS with a PCB preamp board in a picture.
All the preamps of Dumble ODS 50W and 100W amps I know of are wired "point to point" - with the exception of the HRM PCBs and the FET PCBs of the later amps.
All the SSSs and ODS 150W amps I know of are on PCBs (perhaps this is the reason why these don't sound that great? )
There are other amp manufactures that already do the same thing, I’ve recently repaired a Fuchs ODS 30 and was surprised that it was PCB based. The amp is made up of 3 PCB’s Main amplifier, PSU and a board for the controls. These are still not a cheap amplifier, I think Quinn are going for volume of production to sell more amplifiers and grow the business.
Sorry if this is old news and this has been covered in another post.
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Structo wrote:That's the first I have heard that Quinnamp and Red Plate were pooling resources.
I was thinking Shad was up in Washington but now I guess he is in Phoenix as is Henry.
huh?
Huh, what?
Shad'd populating PCB's in house with his amp crew (Quinnamp and Redplate build at the same facility)with Shad doing the final tone tweaking. That said, quality control will be the best bar none
Yes Shad @ Quinnamps and Henry H. @ Redplate build their amps at the same facility in Arizona. They share a building crew sometimes as well as a cab maker. All top notch stuff.
My amp was the first amp built at the new facility AFAIK:
(Although it's not a PCB amp. It's an all hand wired amp based off of #183 and #102 Dumble ODS, using G10 garolite board material using eyelet construction. It's got a Mercury Mag Marshall Plexi power trafo & Mercury Mag Twin Reverb Output Trafo. 6x Preamp tubes for Clean, OD, built in Dumbleator, 2 tube reverb, and PI with a 4xEL34's 100w Output section)
As mentioned, Andy Fuchs is doing this and has been doing it for years.
There is no electrical/sonic difference between a PCB based amp and an amp built any other way - if the PCB is designed correctly. Many state that PTP/handwired amps are easier to repair, but that's not necessarily true either. Many PCBs do make repairs difficult, but that is a design problem, not a PCB problem. From my perspective, a well designed PCB is better than any other method that I can think of. PCBs have a big advantage as volume increases. I don't normally use PCBs for my amps because I only build one or two of any type and low volumes don't justify my time to design one, although I design many PCBs as part of my job. Let's end the rumor that PCBs are somehow bad or not optimal. It's just not true.
Last edited by vibratoking on Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think what gives the PCB a bad name is the cheaper devices that use them.
That and ribbon cable, man I hate that stuff.
I also think that any time that you mount mechanical components such as tube sockets, pots and jacks on the PCB you are asking for trouble.
If the board is stiff, has thick traces with plate through holes and is securely mounted it can be a good thing, especially for consistent results.
It does save some labor as far as cutting boards, mounting turrets or eyelets.
And probably saves on the amount of solder as well as wire used in each amp.
I also think that any time that you mount mechanical components such as tube sockets, pots and jacks on the PCB you are asking for trouble.
Yes, tube sockets mounted to PCB is bad news.
Stands on soapbox...
To be clear, those are not faults due to the PCB. Those are faults due to a bad design choice. Most likely the designer new that mounting tube sockets to the PCB is a failure point. Anyone who has been around a few days knows this. The problem is that it is much cheaper to do it this way. The evil manager, read Dilbert, makes the decision to mount them on the socket to save some $ in assembly. The tube connection fails and somehow all PCB designs get a bad rap. So a poor engineering decision along with poor logic by the majority of consumers leads to a false conclusion. PCBs are very good when designed correctly.
Last edited by vibratoking on Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I own a Glaswerks Zingaro now. PCB-based. Man, this is a nice amp and a killer value. Done right, I guess there's absolutely nothing wrong with using PCB's. But I bet you've got to have the technical know-how to pull it off, not just look for the easiest layout and go for it.
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