Odyssey Layout & Schematic

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Aaron
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Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by Aaron »

I needed a break from drawing SSS layouts so I had a go at the Odyssey.
This is based around Odyssey 012, not a 100% clone. I couldn't make out all the values, so I used some values from the time period.
Mostly the resistor values in the P.I. and driver.

If anyone has specific values, let me know and I can update the layout and schem.

Thanks,
Aaron

EDIT:- HAVE UPDATED THE SCHEM. TO SUGGESTED VALUES.

Thanks to all for their input/suggestions
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Last edited by Aaron on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ToneMerc
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by ToneMerc »

Very cool, thanks again Aaron.

TM
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alvarezh
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by alvarezh »

If I may, and if I am not derailing, what is (are?) the advantage(s) of this double tube PI (as opposed to the single tube, of course) which is also used on the SSS?

Thank you in advance.
Horacio

Play in tune and B#!
dcribbs1412
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by dcribbs1412 »

Another great start Aaron
your time/work is much appreciated
Thanks
Darin
markr14850
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by markr14850 »

alvarezh wrote:If I may, and if I am not derailing, what is (are?) the advantage(s) of this double tube PI (as opposed to the single tube, of course) which is also used on the SSS?
Note that they are different. In this case, the signal is taken off the plate, with a low value plate resistor, and then AC coupled to the power tube grids.

In the SSS, the signal is taken from the cathode, and DC coupled to the grids.

I assume that the intention in both cases is to have a low impedance driving the grids - possibly to enter class AB2. With the AC coupling, you may have a greater chance of blocking distortion, due to charge changes across the coupling caps when the grids start to conduct.
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heisthl
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by heisthl »

Yes Thanks for this - are you sure about the 50uf B+ filter cap (2 X 100). Seems like this amp should have twice that. HH
Former owner of Music Mechanix
www.RedPlateAmps.com
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alvarezh
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by alvarezh »

Appreciate your explanation Mark, so the purpose is to obtain maximum headroom, right?

Thanks again.
Horacio

Play in tune and B#!
markr14850
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by markr14850 »

alvarezh wrote:so the purpose is to obtain maximum headroom, right?
For the original purpose, you'd have to ask the artist.

I see two tools:

1. Driving a tube in AB2 (i.e. providing a low source impedance) can be used to get more clean power, as the clipping effects of grid current can be overcome, or at least managed to some level.

2. Driving a tube via DC coupling can remove the blocking distortion ("farting out") problems that occur when pushing a lot of low frequency content.

One person might use one or both of these to try to maximize headroom. Another might not be interested in more power, but in simply allowing more low frequency content. And yet another might be interested in very precise management of the onset and character of grid limiting distortion, and would happily give up several watts of headroom to make that transition sound the way they want.
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alvarezh
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by alvarezh »

Clear enough Mark.

Really appreciate your time given.

All the best.
Horacio

Play in tune and B#!
talbany
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by talbany »

This is basically the same type CF driver used in the Super Twin..Nothing unique here..Heath Kit's used this similar circuit used driving 6550's in the 60's.. the Super Twin is a Schmitt feeding two independent CFs; the SVT is a split-load inverter feeding two independent common cathode gain stages feeding two independent direct coupled CFs ... There's also the Marshall Major with a split-load inverter feeding another type of Schmitt.
Hey Max
Have you ever seen this type of CF driver in any of the Dumbleands? or were those primary split load inverters (Like the SVT/SSS)

Thank You!!

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
tictac
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by tictac »

The Odyssey looks very similar an early McIntosh poweramp before they went the direct coupled route. They used a 12BH7 with 12k plate loads and a 12AU7 PI. The PI circuit isn't the same but it does have an 18k tail resistor...

interesting....

TT
Max
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by Max »

talbany wrote:Have you ever seen this type of CF driver in any of the Dumbleands? or were those primary split load inverters (Like the SVT/SSS)
Tony, what do you think about the inverter and driver of Winterland #003 (see attached pictures - source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 20%230003/) and the drivers and the inverters of the Odyssey amps you know (see all the pictures I posted links to in my previous post e.g.)?

Do all these Odyssey amps have the same inverter / driver configuration as the Winterland?

And is the configuration in the Winterland a different one as the one you see on the pictures of SSS #001 and on the picture and the old handwritten schematic http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 738#204738 of SSS#002?

And what do you think about this?:

Alexander Dumble:

"The Steel-String Singer came later, but I actually started making a series of amplifiers called the Dumbleland in about '66, and I still make them. That was the forerunner of the Steel-String Singer. I didn't change a whole lot about that; it was a design way ahead of its time. It was too much power and too silky clean for people. It's perfect for Stevie Ray, though.

Stevie Ray Vaughan calls his Steel-String singer the "King Tone Consoul.

There are some different things about Stevie's. His is set up more like a bass amp, modified to accommodate the guitar range. It's not the usual lead guitar "Singer" approach. One thing he liked was that he could turn the volume control all the way up and it didn't distort--it just got louder."

Source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... /Articles/

All the best and lots of fun!

Max
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AtomCap
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x-formers

Post by AtomCap »

Would it use twin/showman trannies for output & power?
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talbany
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Re: Odyssey Layout & Schematic

Post by talbany »

Tony, what do you think about the inverter and driver of Winterland #003 (see attached pictures - source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 20%230003/) and the drivers and the inverters of the Odyssey amps you know (see all the pictures I posted links to in my previous post e.g.)?
Max
Your going to put me to work today huh?.. OK!
The Winterland looks to be a typical split load phase inverter (No Cathode Follower) and driver..These were commonly found in the Williamson amplifier circuit and was very popular through the 50s and 60s.
The output stage usually employed tubes that were somewhat higher power than the operating point would require.. It was felt that this gave lower distortion than for a pair of tubes pushed to their limit. It certainly gave longer tube life.
Do all these Odyssey amps have the same inverter / driver configuration as the Winterland?
Edited
No ..The Odyssey amps appear to have common cathode and driver
And is the configuration in the Winterland a different one as the one you see on the pictures of SSS #001 and on the picture and the old handwritten schematic http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 738#204738 of SSS#002?
Well yeah!!..The Winterland is similar to that of a Williamson
and the SSS is similar to that of the SVT a split-load inverter feeding two independent common cathode gain stages feeding two independent direct coupled CFs

And what do you think about this?:

Alexander Dumble:

"The Steel-String Singer came later, but I actually started making a series of amplifiers called the Dumbleland in about '66, and I still make them. That was the forerunner of the Steel-String Singer. I didn't change a whole lot about that; it was a design way ahead of its time. It was too much power and too silky clean for people. It's perfect for Stevie Ray, though.

Stevie Ray Vaughan calls his Steel-String singer the "King Tone Consoul.

There are some different things about Stevie's. His is set up more like a bass amp, modified to accommodate the guitar range. It's not the usual lead guitar "Singer" approach. One thing he liked was that he could turn the volume control all the way up and it didn't distort--it just got louder."
So the Winterland has been the forerunner of the Dumbleland and the Dumbleland (for guitar) has been the forerunner of the SSS.

I was just wondering if you ever happend across a Dland (perhaps transition) that used an earlier Winterland driver?..A Simple No would have worked fine..But thanks for the questions! :lol:

Tony
Last edited by talbany on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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