chewy notes on D-style amps

[Zippy]

Have you considered running it into an attenuator or isolation cabinet? That might get you back in the preferred Tone Zone at the levels you desire.

I use the loop as a master volume, so I don't see the need for an attenuator. I have thought about an isolation cab. That's still a possibility.

Thanks!
Greg

You say that your amp sounds good at levels above bedroom level so something in the gain structure isn't working with your setup at lower volumes. What if you used the settings that give you the sound you want and then attenuated the output to get the level? That's where the attenuator comes in.

[greg54]

You say that your amp sounds good at levels above bedroom level so something in the gain structure isn't working with your setup at lower volumes. What if you used the settings that give you the sound you want and then attenuated the output to get the level? That's where the attenuator comes in.

I see. Well, right now it would be an attenuator OR an isolation cab. But they're both good ideas.

Thanks!
Greg

[Zippy]

I'm glad that I was finally able to make sense to you of my suggestion. The problem may be in how much signal you're getting to the phase inverter.

Please let us know what works for you.

G'luck!

[dave g]

Typical 12" guitar speakers are very nonlinear (in a bad sounding way) at extremely low power levels. IMO you need to be putting at least a watt through them before they start sounding good.

IME, harsh OD on D-style amplifiers that you can't seem to get rid of by dumping treble is often due to V2b being too center-biased. Have you measured the cathode voltage on V2b? IMO you want it to be like 1.9 to 2 volts. You can try swapping in other 12AX7s or by raising the cathode resistor to 2.7k or 3k (assuming this is a high plate non-HRM, i.e. 150k plate with 2.2k cathode)

[Structo]

I think I may relate to Tag, as far as the Dumble clone tone that I like which drove me to build a Dumble clone.
The Robben Ford album, Mystic Mile, is my favorite Dumble tone which does include Politician.

[greg54]

I'm glad that I was finally able to make sense to you of my suggestion. The problem may be in how much signal you're getting to the phase inverter.

Please let us know what works for you.

G'luck!

I will. Thanks again!

Greg

[greg54]

IME, harsh OD on D-style amplifiers that you can't seem to get rid of by dumping treble is often due to V2b being too center-biased. Have you measured the cathode voltage on V2b? IMO you want it to be like 1.9 to 2 volts. You can try swapping in other 12AX7s or by raising the cathode resistor to 2.7k or 3k (assuming this is a high plate non-HRM, i.e. 150k plate with 2.2k cathode)

I'll talk to Mark Kane about that, as I am new to electronic stuff.

Thanks for the suggestion!
Greg

[greg54]

I think I may relate to Tag, as far as the Dumble clone tone that I like which drove me to build a Dumble clone.
The Robben Ford album, Mystic Mile, is my favorite Dumble tone which does include Politician.

I like most of Robben's tone that he's gotten through the years. But my favorite tone is on his Blue Moon CD. His tone on that one seems smoother to me.

Greg

[Structo]

I like that album as well, but as I said the album that captures the best Dumble tone is Mystic Mile because of the tone.

But I do respect your opinion.

[greg54]

I like that album as well, but as I said the album that captures the best Dumble tone is Mystic Mile because of the tone.

But I do respect your opinion.

Notice I didn't say I didn't like Robben's tone on Mysitc Mile.

"The Quinn was a decent amp. I think Shad called it an SDOF1. It was his version of Bludo's Ojai. I've watched youtube videos of the Quinn 183, and it's not my taste, to be honest. A little too gritty."

It's the Quinn's 183 that I said is too gritty. Mystic Mile has great tone.


Greg

[tag101]

Tag, just curious - do you play humbuckers or single coils?

PRS with 57/08s and Dragon 2s, teles with custom shop fat 50s and lollars, and Strats with CS 50s and 57 RIs. With 183, Hums and teles kick arse straight up. With a Strat, just flip up the mid boost. I have plenty of clips of all combinations if you need to hear anything specific. One thing I do differently that I think helps, is Robben ford on Mystic mile used a 4/12 Marshall closed back on the entire thing with some bright Celestions. (70 watters IIR) I use a mesa 4/12 cab with celestion G12H30 anniversaries. Also brighter speakers, but the closed back rounds it out perfectly, and NEVER any bright cap needed. When I saw ford live back then, his sound was beautiful. Smooth as silk with no harshness. Every since Bluemoon, his tone completely changed. There were a bunch of us at the Bottom line show from TGP, and almost everyone bitched about his ear splitting tone. The D clan went ballistic on me for saying I enjoyed Johhny As (opening act) Marshalls tone far more than fords Dumble, but I did. IMO, that was the beginning of a changed Dumble and (to me) the dreaded "bright cap tone". I have not liked his tone ever since, except in the studio where it seems to be nuetralized, or on live video where it smooths that spiking top end with compression. The Mystic era live tone is long gone. Ultrasound had a few Dumbles with that harsh, pencil in the ear treble. UGGH!!!

[tag101]

The Quinn was a decent amp. I think Shad called it an SDOF1. It was his version of Bludo's Ojai. I've watched youtube videos of the Quinn 183, and it's not my taste, to be honest. A little too gritty.

This Mark Kane amp gets the tone I want. Like I said, it's just the harshness. And the harshness is pretty much only at bedroom level volumes.
I have no desire to replace it.
Thanks anyway, Tag.

Greg

never heard or played that one. Played several Ojai circuits though. Not for me. Bright and hazy. Here is 183 stratight in. I hear no grit, but thats just personal taste. I hear pure vintage Blue line Ford. There is a Trex roomate in the loop, thats it. Tons of chirp, NO bright cap or Dulator. PRS with Dragon 2 PUPS. Not the best choice for this tone, but it still works pretty well. At least IMO. YMMV, etc etc.

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single ... i&newref=1[/url]

[tag101]

You say that your amp sounds good at levels above bedroom level so something in the gain structure isn't working with your setup at lower volumes. What if you used the settings that give you the sound you want and then attenuated the output to get the level? That's where the attenuator comes in.

Great idea!! That should work perfectly I would think. The last thing I every think of with a Dumble is attenuation. The MVs usually do a great job on their own.

[tag101]

I think I may relate to Tag, as far as the Dumble clone tone that I like which drove me to build a Dumble clone.
The Robben Ford album, Mystic Mile, is my favorite Dumble tone which does include Politician.

I love everything about that CD. That and Tiger walk are my two favorites. I think Tiger walk is one of my favorite CDS period. The song layout, the moods from beginning to end, everything for me is just perfect. Ford at his very best to me.

[briane]

I always run my volume and tone on the guitar on 10

dont wanna cramp your style- but the volume knob on the guitar should cover 80% of your tone adjustment once you get the amp dialed in.

to me - if you aint using the volume knob on the guitar, then you aint using a dumble correctly....IMO

Most people I know dial in the amp, then use the guitar volume to go between crunchy and smooth, lound and mellow, etc...and just click the footpedal OD when needed for leads - It should be a very simple amp to play - and you shouldnt have to mess with the amp controls in the middle of a song to change the sound palette.