Dumbleator Settings and Advice

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Structo
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Dumbleator Settings and Advice

Post by Structo »

This is a condensed version of a thread that several people weighed in on, about how to set up your Dumbleator.
A Dumbleator is a tube buffered effects loop to be used on an amp with a passive effects loop, such as the many Dumble amps.


From Talbany:
The first thing you want to do is set the Mstr (on the amp) up fairly high (12-2;00)..This helps to drive the cathode follower which in turn generates some 2nd order harmonics (think 5f6a circuit),it also creates some nice compression (I think there is a Chewy thread around.. Laughing) It also helps to have a rack unit that has an input and output control.. Wink
The send is usually kept fairly low since your driving the follower pretty hard (around 9:00) ..You want to see the input on the effect on the verge of clipping or just below..If it's 3 knob lator you want to drive the grid of the recovery fairly hard as well for max frequency response and feel.. I generally open mine wide open or 3/4 up..This of coarse works in conjunction with the output on the effect ( output levels on effects tend to add the compression you don't want)..The return now becomes your global master since it's the last pot the PI sees!
The bright switches are set to taste..(I use these switches constantly depending on guitar and sound I am going for)
Overall you want to drive the lator with plenty of signal to get the full effect of what the D-lator brings which is 2nd order (fatter) and some nice compression on the back end.. Since the PI sees a bit less of a load (250k) and lower impedance driving the pot (one of the reasons why Mstr's work better on Marshalls, than SF Fenders) you will also notice a change in frequency response and better control over the global master..
Get a GOOD time delay unit!!..That makes a BIG difference since you have now (in a series config) essentially 99.9% transistorized your signal .

Obviously some units are better/ worse than others..Some might do fine for what you want it to do like Aaron mentions..My point was most don't know which opamps (and other components) are being used in some units and how they perform in a buffered/recovery type loop.Since they all have different features and sounds it's difficult to say which one is best suited for you.. I will however say that many of the players I've worked with prefer the older analog driven units that were made in the 90's.. Clearly these units don't have the clock speed D/A converters or more complex algorithms of the later units however they do seem well suited for live guitar, very natural (warmer with some headroom) sounding pre amp sections and to them are more concerned with pre amps than the effects..It's just reverb for live guitar!!
Some of these units are the old Lex's, LXP, Rocktrons,Rolands, TC Electronics,Eventide.. I am sure there are others but these are the ones I have heard and like.. Others can chime in..
BTW..I didn't care for the Alesis stuff much.

From jcsifu:

Tony,
As far as the 90's fx units that you feel would sound good in the dlator, would a lexicon MPX100 from the 90's fall into the category of "older analog driven units that were made in the 90's"?
So, what rack mount multi fx unit would be the best option in order to avoid the dreaded .30 cent syndrome you mention?

Tony replied:
A friend of mine gave me an MXP100 couple months back..It's an OK unit I keep it as a backup but (a bit compressed for my tastes)..get you by... I much prefer the LXP series.. I've been using a LXP15 for about 5 years now..When this goes I'll head more to the PCM's..Allot of guy's like the Rocktrons too..You can pick these up on the Bay for a couple hundred..
Obviously some units are better/ worse than others..Some might do fine for what you want it to do like Aaron mentions..My point was most don't know which opamps (and other components) are being used in some units and how they perform in a buffered/recovery type loop.Since they all have different features and sounds it's difficult to say which one is best suited for you.. I will however say that many of the players I've worked with prefer the older analog driven units that were made in the 90's.. Clearly these units don't have the clock speed D/A converters or more complex algorithms of the later units however they do seem well suited for live guitar, very natural (warmer with some headroom) sounding pre amp sections and to them are more concerned with pre amps than the effects..It's just reverb for live guitar!!
Some of these units are the old Lex's, LXP, Rocktrons,Rolands, TC Electronics,Eventide.. I am sure there are others but these are the ones I have heard and like.

From Tom:
I use the Xotic X-Blender for a parallel insert.
It's a switchable series-parallel loop unit

I run a TC Electronics G Sharp reverb/delay rack unit into this in parallel.
I use that as more of an ambient reverb/ delay just to warm up the guitar tone a bit instead of completely dry.

It has a Wet/ Dry knob so you can blend in real time how much effect you want on the overall signal.
The knob is large enough to be adjusted by my foot.

John Suhr commented that he didn't think the unit had as much headroom as his Mini Mix but I find it acceptable and at a much lower cost.

And what I like as well is the X-Blender has switches for true bypass, Blend On/Off, Series/ parallel, Phase/ invert, bass mid treble trimmers and Boost on/off.

From Vibratoking:
I saw all the threads posted in the last few years. Build your own, byo MiniMix, Mesa trick, etc... I found a MiniMixII on ebay for cheap and haven't looked back. It's a great unit.

From bluesmanfenderblues:
The Claus-ulator

Dumblelator + 25k linear pot!!

After trying a lot of different parallel loop designs and checking out a lot of schematics, I stumbles on the latest MESA iteration of the effects loop. They used this idea (a simple 25k pot) in the rectifier series 20 years ago, and they still used it in current amps like e.g. the NOMAD series.

I really think the parallel loop below, is the best solution if you want

- Original Dumblelator with
- Effects added in parallel (and in phase with the direct signal)

No effects unit connected:
The 25k pot is totally out of the equation.

With effect unit in the loop:
Turn the pot all the way down, you get 10% wet signal and 90% direct
Turn the pot all the way up to 10, you get almost 100% wet signal, like a traditional Dumblelator.

If you cant stand the idea of the pot being in the loop, you can simply add a switch to take it out of the circuit.

Very simple addition to the Dumblelator and IMO it works like a charm.

JHP said:
I have a 2290 that sounds great because of the analog dry path but even the higher end Lex PCM series will benefit from some type of mixer/ parallel routing to avoid the digi conversion. I have a PCM 80 and I'm using an older inexpensive Roland M120 rack line mixer and it sounds great. You can pick them up used for 100.00. The Rane sm 26b is another good option.
Most rack reverb units sound better if you can run them 100% wet in a parallel situation.

Something like the Suhr minimix or gigrig wet box would work as well.

Running through digi A/D converters does smooth the tone and add compression that initially doesn't sound too bad but you loose punch and dynamics. My experience is as long as you keep the analog dry path most fx units sound pretty good.

I run my Lator with drive at 10:00 recovery max and output to taste as overall master volume.
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Tom

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Structo
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Re: Dumbleator Settings and Advice

Post by Structo »

Talbany said:

The other thing we should probably mention (as you know) is cables!!

Since the D-lator sits at the back end of the preamp, it's a great spot for tweaking the overall sound of the amp..Also the D-lator is a low impedance (after the buffer) device any alterations to the unit can be very effective..
These include cables!
As we all know cables carry with them a certain amount of capacitance (rated PF per foot)..depending on the type and length of cable adding capacitance is an effective way of removing certain frequencies that can be rather harsh and un musical in some amps (especially in OD)..A good example of this would be Robben Ford's use of 6ft cables (some even use the same cables as what is in the amp).. If you like a bright tone and the amp is not harsh go the opposite direction..Good low capacitance cables cut short..
The next tweak point are the bright switches..
This is another great tweak spot.. You don't have to use the same value bright caps as what's in the original's (as posted in the files section).. Since this unit has 2 (one for send and one for return and if you want one on the drive or mix) this gives you 4 different bright sounds to choose from (if you use different values) so try different values here that better match your guitars speaker cab and of coarse style!!
BTW..I use these switches all the time as it's a great way to slightly brighten your tone on the fly!!
Also if you want to add a bit of gain and harmonic content to your tone try adding a bypass switch to the NFB loop on the return amp..Works great at giving the amp a bit more zing at low volume..
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
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