Poor mans SSS ~
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Thanks for these posts.
To clarify: As I understand it, the usual approach is to find a compromise between clean tones and overdrive tones. Are you, in this version, advocating one dedicated clean channel and one dedicated OD channel, or is this intended to merge flavors of two different ODs into one amp?
Might A/B switching be a way to avoid compromise and, instead optimize each of clean and OD channels?
To clarify: As I understand it, the usual approach is to find a compromise between clean tones and overdrive tones. Are you, in this version, advocating one dedicated clean channel and one dedicated OD channel, or is this intended to merge flavors of two different ODs into one amp?
Might A/B switching be a way to avoid compromise and, instead optimize each of clean and OD channels?
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
I have seen them voiced the same, differently and same but of course one chan has verb or trem.Zippy wrote: or is this intended to merge flavors of two different ODs into one amp?
My take has always been that these are no substitute for a standalone ODS, so simply take a stock Fender mostly keeping all the original fit and functions then add some Dumble flavor and it makes for a cool Fender sleeper.
Throw in a small PCB to fund the relay supply and use an A/B switch to move between the voicings. Although I saw a Bassman with a switch to jumper channels.
TM
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
IMO..The BM PI will clip sooner than the usual Dumble/Fender fare and is a bit more dynamic, but if you want moderate to heavy overdrive at fairly low volumes (typical indoor club gig volumes)..You will probably need an OD pedal for this..IMO
BTW..I have a Clay Jones modded 808 that just kills in my amp!!
Tony
BTW..I have a Clay Jones modded 808 that just kills in my amp!!
Tony
Last edited by talbany on Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Thank you. I appreciate your shared insights.
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Da Geezer, you pretty much nailed it in your previous post.
Jelle, The presumption that i use the search function kind of ticked me off a little. I have spent hours using the search function in this forum on both Trainwreck and Dumble sections. I have built and modified amplifiers with very good results which i could not have done without the concise and generous knowledge of members with in this forum.
I have posted very little on this forum in the past due to the fact that when i wanted specific information on a subject i have searched and found the answers in abundance therefore negating the need to post and ask questions. I usually post on the rare occasion that i could add something constructive.
Given the abundance of info on the ODS and it variations, SSS, Manzamp etc, It puzzles me why people are so reluctant to discuss the UP amp. Sure i have read all the posts that state classic tone stack on one channel Bluesmaster on the other, Marshall PI. To my ears this amp has some other things going on in there than just tonestacks and PI's. I maybe wrong??
Again, nothing but respect for all involved on this forum.
Rich
Jelle, The presumption that i use the search function kind of ticked me off a little. I have spent hours using the search function in this forum on both Trainwreck and Dumble sections. I have built and modified amplifiers with very good results which i could not have done without the concise and generous knowledge of members with in this forum.
I have posted very little on this forum in the past due to the fact that when i wanted specific information on a subject i have searched and found the answers in abundance therefore negating the need to post and ask questions. I usually post on the rare occasion that i could add something constructive.
Given the abundance of info on the ODS and it variations, SSS, Manzamp etc, It puzzles me why people are so reluctant to discuss the UP amp. Sure i have read all the posts that state classic tone stack on one channel Bluesmaster on the other, Marshall PI. To my ears this amp has some other things going on in there than just tonestacks and PI's. I maybe wrong??
Again, nothing but respect for all involved on this forum.
Rich
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Rich with a little gumption all the info needed to build a UP can be found in this forum, although some folks expect all info to be spoonfed to them including a layout. No need to get ticked off because it was suggested to use the search function though.crafty1 wrote: To my ears this amp has some other things going on in there than just tonestacks and PI's. I maybe wrong??
I can't speak for anyone else but when asked by either the owner or a tech to not publicly disclose info about about a certain D amp, I abide by it.
One last thing which I have said in the past concerning the UP is that just because Dumble touched it folks expect to see some grand scheme which is much more than what's there, when in reality the mod is conceptually rather simple in the platform of his work.
Sometimes the point is reached to where either you stay on the porch and continue to whine and wait for someone to throw you a bone or you jump off the porch and get it youself.
TM
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Regarding the UP, I don't believe that there is any one UP layout. I have seen several different approaches to the UP, most of which seem to only share the fact that they are modified Fenders. If you want to figure out the UP, do a search for dumble & Fender and look for the various examples of his Fender mods (there are several pics on the board). Study those pictures like crazy and notice the similarities. Then, compare those amps to the Bluesmaster layout in the files section -- you will notice more similarities. Then, get yourself a beater bassman, bandmaster or showman and start playing around. I've spent hours/days doing this with good results. Not only will you end up with a cool amp, but you will learn a bunch in the process. Just please don't hack up a nice old Fender -- find a beater to play with.
By the way, I agree with Tony -- if you want a UP to give up the goods at lower volumes, you need a pedal to help out (otherwise they are loud as hell). I tried to put a PPIMV on mine, but it killed the tone too much for my taste. You'll notice that most of the UP clips (if not all) on youtube have pedals out front.
Regarding switching -- the ones that I've seen have just had foot switches for PAB (tone stack lift). I believe that the one that combined the channels had a 3 position rotary switch.
By the way, I agree with Tony -- if you want a UP to give up the goods at lower volumes, you need a pedal to help out (otherwise they are loud as hell). I tried to put a PPIMV on mine, but it killed the tone too much for my taste. You'll notice that most of the UP clips (if not all) on youtube have pedals out front.
Regarding switching -- the ones that I've seen have just had foot switches for PAB (tone stack lift). I believe that the one that combined the channels had a 3 position rotary switch.
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
I use a D-lator variant with my modded Twin and can achieve consistent clean and drive tones at any volume (from full volume to literally a whisper)....but since my drive channel is ODS based, I guess that is to be expected.mhartman wrote:
By the way, I agree with Tony -- if you want a UP to give up the goods at lower volumes, you need a pedal to help out (otherwise they are loud as hell). I tried to put a PPIMV on mine, but it killed the tone too much for my taste. You'll notice that most of the UP clips (if not all) on youtube have pedals .
I have another "dead" twin (a newer '78 ) that will eventually be modded, too, but I'm sure it will end up with a slightly different configuration as I "get off the porch" even more.
G
Last edited by da Geezer on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
If you really want to do a cool ass amp!!
Do a BM PI (and a tone stack of your choosing) on one channel and the other do Dumbles High gain mod (internal channel/boost switching)100w EL-34's & Marshall transformers..No need for a pedal then..Bluesmaster/tweaked JCM800
Call it the UGP Ultra Gain Phonix
This to me would be even cooler than an ODS..IMO..I only ask that you don't add spring reverb!
It's spoon feeding time!!
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30
Tony
Do a BM PI (and a tone stack of your choosing) on one channel and the other do Dumbles High gain mod (internal channel/boost switching)100w EL-34's & Marshall transformers..No need for a pedal then..Bluesmaster/tweaked JCM800
Call it the UGP Ultra Gain Phonix
This to me would be even cooler than an ODS..IMO..I only ask that you don't add spring reverb!
It's spoon feeding time!!
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
DELETEDDo a BM PI (and a tone stack of your choosing) on one channel and the other do Dumbles High gain mod (internal channel/boost switching)100w EL-34's & Marshall transformers..No need for a pedal then..Bluesmaster/tweaked JCM800 Twisted Evil
With respect, 10thtx
Last edited by 10thTx on Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Not exactly.. I was thinking more like 2 discrete channels..This way you can voice the 2 without them effecting each other,(mix them in @ PI)which is why I think it would be cooler than an ODS with the cascading stages..
Tony
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Thanks for the reply and clarity!I was thinking more like 2 discrete channels..This way you can voice the 2 without them effecting each other,(mix them in @ PI)
DaGeezer did 2 discrete channels that were Fenderish and Dumblish.
IF I am understanding you correctly, then perhaps you're saying Marshall JCM 800 and Dumblish instead each being a discrete channel?
I think I drew up a schematic like that a while back? IF I did & can find it. I'll post it for discussion.
With respect, 10thtx
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Yes, my channels are totally discrete up to the PI10thTx wrote:Thanks for the reply and clarity!I was thinking more like 2 discrete channels..This way you can voice the 2 without them effecting each other,(mix them in @ PI)
DaGeezer did 2 discrete channels that were Fenderish and Dumblish.
IF I am understanding you correctly, then perhaps you're saying Marshall JCM 800 and Dumblish instead each being a discrete channel?
I think I drew up a schematic like that a while back? IF I did & can find it. I'll post it for discussion.
With respect, 10thtx
Channel A is 3 stage Fender, channel B is 4 stage ODS, both mixed into the PI, no relays (A/B box only)
Re: Poor mans SSS ~
Do a BM PI (and a tone stack of your choosing) on one channel and the other do Dumbles High gain mod (internal channel/boost switching)100w EL-34's & Marshall transformers..No need for a pedal then..Bluesmaster/tweaked JCM800 Twisted Evil
Are either of these sort of what you are thinking?I was thinking more like 2 discrete channels..This way you can voice the 2 without them effecting each other,(mix them in @ PI)which is why I think it would be cooler than an ODS with the cascading stages..
With respect, 10thtx
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Re: Poor mans SSS ~
I built a version of the modded bassman. The 45k in the schematic are supposed to be 470k. I thought the OD channel was a version of the Rippertalbany wrote:If you really want to do a cool ass amp!!
Do a BM PI (and a tone stack of your choosing) on one channel and the other do Dumbles High gain mod (internal channel/boost switching)100w EL-34's & Marshall transformers..No need for a pedal then..Bluesmaster/tweaked JCM800
Call it the UGP Ultra Gain Phonix
This to me would be even cooler than an ODS..IMO..I only ask that you don't add spring reverb!
It's spoon feeding time!!
http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... c&start=30
Tony
The clean in my amp I changed to ODRS #60 values, great clean sounding tonestack, really suits single coils. The OD/JCM800 channel is not really for me.
Aaron