70's and 80's Dumbles........

[carbon_unit]

Hello all,

This is my first post so I figured I make it the noob question of the day. I've recently become very interested in getting a Dumble clone. There's plenty of information out there, and plenty of bad sounding videos, but nothing beats actually hearing the amps for yourself. So with that in mind I'd like to ask a question of the members that have had the opportunity to hear some of HAD work first hand. Generally speaking, what's the difference by tonally between the 70's and 80's Dumble amps?

I'm having an amp built soon based on this thread as David is one of my earliest influences. I don't primarily play slide though so before I build an amp that a slide player used I wanted to make sure the tone would transfer to myself. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this thread and double thanks if you respond. [/url]

[ToneMerc]

Hmmmm, tough question in it's entirety and begs to ask which 70's or 80's circuit. Other than builds my only experience with real HAD builds are 80's and 90's amps and I had started to type an answer and then decided to point you here first.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14104


TM

[carbon_unit]

Thanks man! It seems the 70's circuit is pretty popular. Hopefully someone that's either heard an original or built one ( or god willing both) can chime in soon. Thanks again to you and everyone else that helps me with this. I really want to be specific with what I order.

[ToneMerc]

Thanks man! It seems the 70's circuit is pretty popular. Hopefully someone that's either heard an original or built one ( or god willing both) can chime in soon. Thanks again to you and everyone else that helps me with this. I really want to be specific with what I order.

The 70's circuit with 12AT7 PI a nd "funky OD entrance" is one of my favs and if I could only pick 3 circuits, that's one of them, decent cleans and a grity unrefined OD, what a fun amp.

TM

[Smokebreak]

TM, are you referring to the 100k//250p > 470K >22K (#40)entrance or the other one with the 1M2, 33K, etc("2nd gen").
Which tonestack do you like here? 150K slope or one of the 100K slopes?

I've got the 1M2 entrance in something right now that I like a lot, with a 150K slope, 300p, 250K mid pot. Cool thing about that stack is that you can switch in the bottom of the bass pot to the top of the mid pot, and also a .02 across the mid cap, and approximate a BF tonestack pretty well.

[bluesfendermanblues]

TM, are you referring to the 100k//250p > 470K >22K (#40)entrance or the other one with the 1M2, 33K, etc("2nd gen").
Which tonestack do you like here? 150K slope or one of the 100K slopes?

I've got the 1M2 entrance in something right now that I like a lot, with a 150K slope, 300p, 250K mid pot. Cool thing about that stack is that you can switch in the bottom of the bass pot to the top of the mid pot, and also a .02 across the mid pot, and approximate a BF tonestack pretty well.

if you want to approximate a BF stack - you just turn the mid pot down to 9 o'clock (which gives you 6.8k to ground on a log pot - use your ohm meter if you want it spot on) and you get the blackface tone especially woth a 100k slope amd 22n-47n mid cap.

when your ears are tuned to dumble tones, You'll find the BF is pretty scooped compared to the rounder tones of the dumble stacks. the dumbles are IMO much more versatile.

[Max]

Generally speaking, what's the difference by tonally between the 70's and 80's Dumble amps?

All the Dumble amps I played are custom built individuals - everyone with an individual timbre, feel, playing comfort etc. Even if you only talk about one "model family" - like the ODS 50/100W e. g. - I know of at least five different basic circuit structures built between 1973 - 1979 (at least 3 versions of the OD circuit in combination with at least 3 versions of the tone stack, with or without a "starve" circuit etc.) And all these different basic circuits - all built in "the 70's" - exist in many different individual variations built for different individual customers.

TM, are you referring to the 100k//250p > 470K >22K (#40)entrance or the other one with the 1M2, 33K, etc("2nd gen").

ODS "#40" is an ODS with the typical "2nd gen" look.

Cheers,

Max

[marcos]

Generally speaking, what's the difference by tonally between the 70's and 80's Dumble amps?

All the Dumble amps I played are custom built individuals - everyone with an individual timbre, feel, playing comfort etc. Even if you only talk about one "model family" - like the ODS 50/100W e. g. - I know of at least five different basic circuit structures built between 1973 - 1979 (at least 3 versions of the OD circuit in combination with at least 3 versions of the tone stack, with or without a "starve" circuit etc.) And all these different basic circuits - all built in "the 70's" - exist in many different individual variations built for different individual customers.

I totally agree, however , generally speaking, it think it is fair to say that all of the Dumbles with the "funky OD entrance" ( serial nrs. up to about #70)
deliver a rawer, more dynamic overdrive (less compression), more screaming
than singing, more rock´n´roll . I read a qoute from HAD somewhere where he stated that he thought he had built the "ultimate rock amp"
in 1975 (quoting from memory), so I think this is what he was going for at the time. Personally, I would recommend adding a trim pot in the OD
entrance, so you can dial in the low gain of the early amps, if desired,
but with the option for higher gain levels in this section of the amp,
which will yield more compression, a more singing OD (my preference).
You will still have to choose the tonestack, though.
Have fun

Marcos

[ToneMerc]

Personally, I would recommend adding a trim pot in the OD
entrance, so you can dial in the low gain of the early amps, if desired,
but with the option for higher gain levels in this section of the amp,
which will yield more compression, a more singing OD (my preference).

Marcos

Yeah, that the mod that I do with the "funky OD entrance"

TM

[David Root]

680K and a 500K trimpot, right?

[Max]

... it is fair to say that all of the Dumbles with the "funky OD entrance" ( serial nrs. up to about #70) deliver a rawer, more dynamic overdrive (less compression), more screaming than singing ...

"Funky" OD entrance vs. "trigger" (trim pot) OD entrance" - a comparision:

1st example ("funky"):

• 50’s Telecaster into the "funky OD entrance" of a 3rd generation ODS 50W combo (Altec with a paper dust cap): http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/villag ... _3_144.mp3

2nd example ("funky"):

• '62 Stratocaster, neck pickup > Monster Studio Pro 1000 > 2nd generation ODS 50W > Marshall 4 x 12", Celestion G12M Pre-Rolas soldered for a total load of 4 OHM > Sennheiser MD 421 N > Telefunken TAB V76 > Mytek 8x192 > Logic 9
  
  http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/6000__ ... rt_188.mp3
  
  http://ampgarage.com/forum/files/6000__ ... rt_199.mp3
  
  For the clean tone of the intro a Pearl Echo Orbit-1 has been used in front of the normal input of the ODS (clean channel).
  
  For the lead tone the FET input and the "funky OD entrance" of the OD channel have been used.

3rd example ("trigger" trim pot):

• '58 maple neck Stratocaster into the "standard" OD channel ("trigger" trim pot entrance) of a 4th generation ODS with a "classic" tone stack (#0102 before the skyline mod). Solo starts around 3:00:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnafQOkZTo

Cheers,

Max

[ToneMerc]

680K and a 500K trimpot, right?

No, 1M which makes it easier to reference and when setup up at its midpoint approximates the 1.2M resistor. It's a worthhile tweak for different styles of pickups.

TM

[David Root]

Thanx TM, flexibility is a good thang!

[Luthierwnc]

To the OP;

I've built 10 of these things ranging from the 2nd generation to the HRM -- all of them somehow different than the stock schematic. Others here will have more specific experience with which players played what but my general impression is that as the product evolved, it became cleaner (until pushed), a bit brighter and morphed from rock towards fusion. It is a subtle shift, mind you, but that's what I hear.

Since it sounds like you will take this project to a builder, your first job is to answer 20 questions about what you want it to do and what you want to play through it. There are some guitarists who can make anything sound great but these amps are pickier about pickups and FX.

In the last half of my builds, I kept one or two of the guitars I intended to use in the shop as I played with settings and component values. As a caution, don't plan to use a big pedalboard. With all the work put into gentle tone shadings, putting a solid-state Chinese MorphMonster on the floor might lose some of the mojo. If it is a custom build, be careful of the builder's feelings It would be like going to a 5-star restaurant and asking for some Texas Pete's.

I don't know if you can find one here but put together your own list of tones you need, where you play, sound pressure levels, cabs, guitars, styles ... are you a lead player, do you need to make big changes mid-song? Do you have to carry the thing up three flights? A big question is whether you will use an active buffered loop for tone and/or time-based effects? Money?

That should keep you busy. Enjoy the chase! sh

[teleman1]

Love that example of the tele max did in the 70’s style amp. Love to talk about that amp and what was used?

Thanks, Jim