First time #183 Build
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First time #183 Build
Hi, first post here. I've been reading for some time and decided I would join up and document my #183 ODS 100w build.
I've been into digital electronics for years and because I like computers - I'm a computer tech. I've built digital parametric EQ kits, Haffler amp kit, rewired guitars and built computers over the years. Wave soldered boards, hand soldered components, etched my own boards, and even wire wrapped ckt boards (Ugg!) for a time.
I'm also a musician (isn't everyone?) and thought I'd like to take on a new challenge. Tubes have always interested me and I decided I'd take the plunge. I realize they are completely different than digital. But, like learning any instrument, you have to have one to learn how to play it.
I got an ODS #183 from Nik and started following the layout he provides. I've used the pictures of builds at TAG to do a proper layout.
Kind of disappointed that he doesn't use/supply Switchcraft jacks, but we'll see how long these plastic ones last. I suppose I could have sourced it all out? Maybe the next one?
I've yet to order the PT, OT, & choke. It's heavy enough without having that to contend with just yet and there's plenty to assemble beforehand.
Unpackaged and I counted up the parts. I made copies of each layout (Talbany's and Niks) and had Costco photo blow them up to 12x18 color photos for $3 each. Very good for seeing where stuff goes! Clear and precise and in color!
Some observations:
First time out I can see there would be a better way to 'assemble' the parts using an external "jig" to hold and preinstall components/wires to the switches and pots, even some of the sockets. Cramped quarters otherwise. It would be a simple task to remove from the jig and install.
Nik offers no 'technical' help on the cheapo buy. Meh, there's plenty of knowledge here to help the neophyte. However, I've yet to read where the different size wires come into play. Logically, the larger gauges for the higher voltages and the smaller for the small signal relays etc. There is one solid core wire I'm taking to be for grounding purposes? Obviously, the shielded wire for signal path.
I checked Tabany's very helpful post here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=16846
against Niks here:
http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutP ... 3-100W.jpg
and realized that his is a little bit 'different' than Niks. I like the idea of the Convenience outlet, but am curious as to the 50/100 switch vs having the impedance selector?
Two different things, but I'm wondering, unless you are stacking speakers in different configurations all the time, how often does one need an impedance selector? Also, why would you want to go to half power? Wouldn't the master volume determine overall volume? 50W is plenty loud, but 100W isn't 2X as loud.
Sorry for the ignorance here, but the question came up as to what is the 'difference' and why?
Another head scratcher is I haven't found a clear close up of the power tube socket wiring. Though I've been searching, I could have missed it?
My goal is to document my build with all the warts and successes. I hope I can do as good a job as the giants that roamed the Earth/ground before me.
Please feel free to add suggestions and advice as you feel needed. Especially if you notice any errors!
I've been into digital electronics for years and because I like computers - I'm a computer tech. I've built digital parametric EQ kits, Haffler amp kit, rewired guitars and built computers over the years. Wave soldered boards, hand soldered components, etched my own boards, and even wire wrapped ckt boards (Ugg!) for a time.
I'm also a musician (isn't everyone?) and thought I'd like to take on a new challenge. Tubes have always interested me and I decided I'd take the plunge. I realize they are completely different than digital. But, like learning any instrument, you have to have one to learn how to play it.
I got an ODS #183 from Nik and started following the layout he provides. I've used the pictures of builds at TAG to do a proper layout.
Kind of disappointed that he doesn't use/supply Switchcraft jacks, but we'll see how long these plastic ones last. I suppose I could have sourced it all out? Maybe the next one?
I've yet to order the PT, OT, & choke. It's heavy enough without having that to contend with just yet and there's plenty to assemble beforehand.
Unpackaged and I counted up the parts. I made copies of each layout (Talbany's and Niks) and had Costco photo blow them up to 12x18 color photos for $3 each. Very good for seeing where stuff goes! Clear and precise and in color!
Some observations:
First time out I can see there would be a better way to 'assemble' the parts using an external "jig" to hold and preinstall components/wires to the switches and pots, even some of the sockets. Cramped quarters otherwise. It would be a simple task to remove from the jig and install.
Nik offers no 'technical' help on the cheapo buy. Meh, there's plenty of knowledge here to help the neophyte. However, I've yet to read where the different size wires come into play. Logically, the larger gauges for the higher voltages and the smaller for the small signal relays etc. There is one solid core wire I'm taking to be for grounding purposes? Obviously, the shielded wire for signal path.
I checked Tabany's very helpful post here:
http://ampgarage.com/forum/download/file.php?id=16846
against Niks here:
http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutP ... 3-100W.jpg
and realized that his is a little bit 'different' than Niks. I like the idea of the Convenience outlet, but am curious as to the 50/100 switch vs having the impedance selector?
Two different things, but I'm wondering, unless you are stacking speakers in different configurations all the time, how often does one need an impedance selector? Also, why would you want to go to half power? Wouldn't the master volume determine overall volume? 50W is plenty loud, but 100W isn't 2X as loud.
Sorry for the ignorance here, but the question came up as to what is the 'difference' and why?
Another head scratcher is I haven't found a clear close up of the power tube socket wiring. Though I've been searching, I could have missed it?
My goal is to document my build with all the warts and successes. I hope I can do as good a job as the giants that roamed the Earth/ground before me.
Please feel free to add suggestions and advice as you feel needed. Especially if you notice any errors!
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Last edited by MusicMaker on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: First time #183 Build
Continuing on with the assembly.
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Last edited by MusicMaker on Fri Mar 27, 2015 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First time #183 Build
and on we go!
Thanks for viewing!
Thanks for viewing!
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Re: First time #183 Build
One more assembly pic and a shot of the two photos I had done. I was about 4 feet above these when I took the pic. Wire cutters for comparison. Zooming in here doesn't do justice to the quality, but you'll get the idea. I hope others can benefit from this tip too!
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Re: First time #183 Build
You may already know this, but the heater wiring for the power tubes will be 18 gauge even though they are only 6.3v.However, I've yet to read where the different size wires come into play. Logically, the larger gauges for the higher voltages and the smaller for the small signal relays etc
With respect, 10thtx
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Re: First time #183 Build
Thanks for the tip.
I have a red and blue 18ga wire twisted up ready to go. I was waiting to see how the back of the socket looked before adding the 5w resistor and heater wires.
Would it matter if it was all 18ga?
Oddly enough, after 'thinking Dumble' and previously searching/viewing all things related, I happened to click on the Bludotone file last night and realized it was pretty darn similar to the Dumble! Why didn't I look there before?!
I found the long lost picture I've been seeking! I wasn't certain how the 5.7K resistors terminated. Now I know!
I have a red and blue 18ga wire twisted up ready to go. I was waiting to see how the back of the socket looked before adding the 5w resistor and heater wires.
Would it matter if it was all 18ga?
Oddly enough, after 'thinking Dumble' and previously searching/viewing all things related, I happened to click on the Bludotone file last night and realized it was pretty darn similar to the Dumble! Why didn't I look there before?!
I found the long lost picture I've been seeking! I wasn't certain how the 5.7K resistors terminated. Now I know!
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- Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:22 pm
- Location: Colorado
Re: First time #183 Build
Life gets in the way of progress.
Wired the heaters and now I'm researching iron.
I'm perplexed about PT prices. Mercury has one for $287, yet Magic is $208. Nik has one with a relay tap $334 (but he can get me a discount for @ $500 for all 3 drop shipped) seems a little high. Japanese iron he says.
OT I haven't located just yet. I'm looking for the spec on the 183 scheme: Magic Parts TF 170 Marshall Plexi. I even read up on it at the Ampage archive and found Marstran $180 and Metro $155.
Choke, Magic & Classic have $25 and $21 respectively.
I want to run a point to point check on my wiring before soldering. I think I'm good, the wife thinks I'm great, but I know I make mistakes, so easy to 'fix' it before soldering!
Then there are the tubes to get.
Wired the heaters and now I'm researching iron.
I'm perplexed about PT prices. Mercury has one for $287, yet Magic is $208. Nik has one with a relay tap $334 (but he can get me a discount for @ $500 for all 3 drop shipped) seems a little high. Japanese iron he says.
OT I haven't located just yet. I'm looking for the spec on the 183 scheme: Magic Parts TF 170 Marshall Plexi. I even read up on it at the Ampage archive and found Marstran $180 and Metro $155.
Choke, Magic & Classic have $25 and $21 respectively.
I want to run a point to point check on my wiring before soldering. I think I'm good, the wife thinks I'm great, but I know I make mistakes, so easy to 'fix' it before soldering!
Then there are the tubes to get.
- martin manning
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Re: First time #183 Build
Nik has relied on TAG for both his R&D and Tech Support without any payback to the forum, so those who created the layouts, etc. posted here are not too thrilled about that.MusicMaker wrote:Nik offers no 'technical' help on the cheapo buy. Meh, there's plenty of knowledge here to help the neophyte.
I wouldn't recommend testing without soldering all connections that are involved in the test. That would be asking for trouble.
Re: First time #183 Build
Also, I remember drawing out those face panels for my prototypes. I never expected Ceriatone to use my files for their products, that certainly did leave a bad taste in my mount.
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Re: First time #183 Build
Wow! Thanks for the links. It'll save on shipping costs!
As for testing unsoldered... ? Wouldn't do that on a dare! I was planning on checking my wiring per the layout before soldering.
Wish I would have known Nik used TAG for starting his business without some remuneration, I would have sourced it myself. He told me they make 100-150 amps a month...!
EDIT: Just ordered iron from Triode. AmpPartsDirect had back orderd so, Triode won out.
As for testing unsoldered... ? Wouldn't do that on a dare! I was planning on checking my wiring per the layout before soldering.
Wish I would have known Nik used TAG for starting his business without some remuneration, I would have sourced it myself. He told me they make 100-150 amps a month...!
EDIT: Just ordered iron from Triode. AmpPartsDirect had back orderd so, Triode won out.
Re: First time #183 Build
Triode delivers, but be patient.
They do zero communication.
You will get an email when you buy and when it ships.
Expect the tranny in about a week to 10 days.
They do zero communication.
You will get an email when you buy and when it ships.
Expect the tranny in about a week to 10 days.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
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- Location: Colorado
Re: First time #183 Build
I've been reading about vacuum tubes. As a reference www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Tubes-by-Manufacturer lists the makers. Some places put their own labels on these. I also read (somewhere) that certain tubes are 'better' from one maker than another. I don't seem to be able to find that site.
Matched pairs? Good idea?
Any makers better than others, or?
Thanks for the guidance. I'm sure others will glean from this thread as well.
Matched pairs? Good idea?
Any makers better than others, or?
Thanks for the guidance. I'm sure others will glean from this thread as well.
- Luthierwnc
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: Asheville, NC
Re: First time #183 Build
Welcome to TAG.
This is probably a good time to talk about speakers. Conventional wisdom splits down the middle. One branch likes heavy, cast-frame American drivers like the EVM12L (or S), Altec 417 and some of the Eminence line. The other branch favors Celestions -- particularly the G12-65 or Scumbacks/WGS speakers from that lineage.
Me; I have a set of both and would hate to have to choose permanently.
Spend some time researching the speakers and cabs that work for the sound in your head. There are a lot of 183 clips on YouTube. Many of them describe the box under the head.
Also keep in mind these amps don't favor all guitars equally. Strats don't get a lot of love with the later generations of the ODS. The 183 is towards the end of that line. At least, a lot of us try once and then get a Tele or something with buckers.
The last thing to add to your to-do list is whether you've considered whether building a matching active loop. It is a one-tube FX circuit that adds a lot to the sound whether you actually use it for effects or not. The jury is out as to whether you must have one but it you have one resistor left in the bin when you finish the amp, you'll need to do something with it, right?
Skip
This is probably a good time to talk about speakers. Conventional wisdom splits down the middle. One branch likes heavy, cast-frame American drivers like the EVM12L (or S), Altec 417 and some of the Eminence line. The other branch favors Celestions -- particularly the G12-65 or Scumbacks/WGS speakers from that lineage.
Me; I have a set of both and would hate to have to choose permanently.
Spend some time researching the speakers and cabs that work for the sound in your head. There are a lot of 183 clips on YouTube. Many of them describe the box under the head.
Also keep in mind these amps don't favor all guitars equally. Strats don't get a lot of love with the later generations of the ODS. The 183 is towards the end of that line. At least, a lot of us try once and then get a Tele or something with buckers.
The last thing to add to your to-do list is whether you've considered whether building a matching active loop. It is a one-tube FX circuit that adds a lot to the sound whether you actually use it for effects or not. The jury is out as to whether you must have one but it you have one resistor left in the bin when you finish the amp, you'll need to do something with it, right?
Skip