ayan wrote:I think everyone makes a valid point here. The interesting thing is, the last few times I have seen RF playing through his 102, it doesn't sound like RF playing through his 102. I am not making this up... "The golden tone era" seems to be long gone, and I would suspect by RF's choice.
Gil
I'm curious - how would you describe the tone now? Thinner? More harsh? Cleaner?
Thanks,
Michael
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
ayan wrote:I think everyone makes a valid point here. The interesting thing is, the last few times I have seen RF playing through his 102, it doesn't sound like RF playing through his 102. I am not making this up... "The golden tone era" seems to be long gone, and I would suspect by RF's choice.
Gil
I'm curious - how would you describe the tone now? Thinner? More harsh? Cleaner?
Thanks,
Michael
A bit of all of the above. How about this:
1. 80s vintage tone, amp's OD, Dumbleator, full rack
I've wondered for years about long-term high-end hearing loss having a negative effect on what a player considers "good tone" - of course, it would be pure speculation to lay this change at those feet. Still, yet another example of "the good old days" - or "back in my day...".
Wife: How many amps do you need?
Me: Just one more...
You are comparing a studio-recorded tone to a live tone of unknown quality. Not a fair comparison at all. That studio track was probably from before the Tele for one thing.
As far as the Cube thing goes, he might be just looking for something he can use for a "fly-in" show that will be "close enough" to the real thing. He also could be looking for something to help pay the bills... Guys like Robben Ford don't exactly make a ton of money and the volume of record sales he generates probably means he has to front a lot of the money for studio/band time himself.
In a 2014 interview RF describes his rig and indeed it is pedalboard based. He seems remarkably uninformed about the technical details, just liked the sound he was getting from the OD pedal and boost https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO-QZNeIBYU
I would suspect that money is the overriding factor here. As already pointed out Robben isn't a big name and therefore wont be a big earner. In his position Roland probably offered him a good deal he couldn't turn down.
I would also suspect his hearing must be pretty bad now. He's from a generation that didn't use any protection so after 40 years of regular playing I would guarantee his hearing will be damaged.
A good friend of mine, a guitarist, went to see Robben at wavendon stables here in the UK. Its a smallish venue ,400 seat theatre , and he said his sound was 'awful' . He said it was so loud and trebly and he couldn't hear any difference between the tele and the SG he was using. I'm not sure what amps he was using that night.
I saw him last year in London with the Dumble and I thought he sounded just as I imagined on record.
Sometimes the sound guy/the venue etc conspire to give a bad sound on the odd night.
MakerDP wrote:You are comparing a studio-recorded tone to a live tone of unknown quality. Not a fair comparison at all. That studio track was probably from before the Tele for one thing.
Well, those Music City Roots recordings are professionally done. We already knew that one tone from from the 80's/90's and the other is recent - that was actually part of the point. Also the Tele was all over the first Jing Chi album and that tone is anything but bright/harsh. It has apparently been quite a while since Robben was primarily using the ODS' OD channel for his OD tone.
I wish Robben every success, but that earlier tone is one of the few that took me beyond, "Oh, that playing!" to "Oh, that TONE!" (The first was Hugh Burns on the "Baker Street" solo.) The first Blue Line record is what put me on the path to wanting to build an ODS.
I saw him at a small historical theater in Napa sitting in the 5th row directly in front of his Dumble and 2x12. He was using a pedal board and no D'lator. The sound was very bright and he was way louder than the rest of the band which included an organ player.
Then about a year later I saw him at Yoshi's in Oakland. The sound mixing was much better. He was upfront when you would expect, but not piercingly bright. David Grissom played with him at this show. Also, pedal board and Dumble sans D'lator.
He had completely different bands accompanying him. Both sounded very much like himself. However, the overall sound was much more pleasing at Yoshi's.
norburybrook wrote:Sometimes the sound guy/the venue etc conspire to give a bad sound on the odd night.
I completely agree with this. I was happy to get to see Van Halen with DLR when they toured. I really looked forward to the show. It was at the Toyota Center in Houston. The sound was so loud and so badly mixed, just an absolute atonal roar, that it was difficult to even get the pitch of the songs being played. Just complete audio brown out. It was very, very disappointing.
The very next week, I saw Foo Fighters at the same arena. Clear, clean sound, and comfortably loud. Saw Tool their too and same thing, great sound.
In a interview from around march 2016, Robben likes the "Palladium" pedal. I saw another youtube interview in which he states, that he sold the large pedalboard, that he used a couple of years ago.
Sounds like it all comes down to portability. Finding gear that makes it easy for him to carry around. Maybe, that why he's not using the ODS with dumbleator, because even for local jobs its too bulky.
norburybrook wrote:Sometimes the sound guy/the venue etc conspire to give a bad sound on the odd night.
I completely agree with this. I was happy to get to see Van Halen with DLR when they toured. I really looked forward to the show. It was at the Toyota Center in Houston. The sound was so loud and so badly mixed, just an absolute atonal roar, that it was difficult to even get the pitch of the songs being played. Just complete audio brown out. It was very, very disappointing.
The very next week, I saw Foo Fighters at the same arena. Clear, clean sound, and comfortably loud. Saw Tool their too and same thing, great sound.
Had a similar experience in the NEC in the UK, went to see the eagles and the mix and quality was utter shite , really really bad , had seen Rush the year before in the same venue and it was utterly fantastic all evening
Venue, choice of PA for the venue, and of course a reputable sound engineer are all factors. However, the ARTIST should check the mix before a show to ensure the end result is too his liking.
We had FOURPLAY over here a number of years ago at the ICC. Great venue. Was expecting a "studio mix". Worst sound and mix I have heard in all my years of being a FOH engineer.
MakerDP wrote:You are comparing a studio-recorded tone to a live tone of unknown quality. Not a fair comparison at all. That studio track was probably from before the Tele for one thing.
I appreciate your comment. I saw RF live probably maybe about 100 times in my life, starting back in the 80s all the way to last year for the last time. His tone has most decidedly changed, irrespective of the quality of the recording one hears. Whether he used the Tele or HBs in days gone by, his tone was singing, with quite a bit (and sometimes a lot) of smooth overdrive, and his playing was consistently flashy and much more lick-based than it is now. His whole approach to music now is another ballgame, as he himself states, he considers himself more of a singer song writer and it seems the guitar is mostly viewed by him as a means to support that.
Yeah that's all true but even the very best FOH engineer on his best night will never be able to get a live sound anywhere near a carefully crafted studio sound.
And for what it's worth for the rest of the discussion... RF's FOH engineer is his guitar tech/tour manager, so he has the same guy every night but he likely does not tour with a full sound system so that could lend to some inconsistency.
