Evolution of SSS

Overdrive Special, Steel String Singer, Dumbleland, Odyssey, Winterland, etc. -
Members Only

Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal

Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

Making some progress on #004.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Bombacaototal on Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

And here
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Bombacaototal on Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:02 am, edited 5 times in total.
User avatar
mhartman
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:43 pm

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by mhartman »

Bombacaototal wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:14 am Making some progress on #004. There is a light blue square I could not identify, also the treble cap. Lastly at the end there is cap at v3a which I am not sure where it goes

Looks like fairly similar to #004 and Hartman (although v1a and v1b LNFB are on simultaneously

I really could not find the trimmer so far. Maybe its a Two Rock thing?
The blue square likely is the 1m trim pot at the inductor.
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

mhartman wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:20 am
Bombacaototal wrote: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:14 am Making some progress on #004. There is a light blue square I could not identify, also the treble cap. Lastly at the end there is cap at v3a which I am not sure where it goes

Looks like fairly similar to #004 and Hartman (although v1a and v1b LNFB are on simultaneously

I really could not find the trimmer so far. Maybe its a Two Rock thing?
The blue square likely is the 1m trim pot at the inductor.
Thanks, that would indeed make sense.
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

I think the tube layout might be
V1 pre amp
V2 reverb send / return
V3 Reverb (wet) recovery
V4 Filter (dry) recovery
V5 Reverb driver
V6 PI
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

What I am finding intriguing of #004 is that it is using 2 tubes to mix the dry/wet signal which is what #001 and #002 did, but the difference is that the #004 has 1 plate load and 1 cathode cap + resistor in each triode of the mixer tubes, making 4 plate loads and 4 cathode cap + resistor in total; as opposed to 2 plate loads and 2 cathode cap + resistor for #001, #002

So probably instead of mixing the signals via cathodes like #001 and #002 it is taking a different approach
Aaron
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Aaron »

Aaron wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:08 am #004 uses the trim. This amp was copied by Two Rock as the Custom Clean and is Ceriatone's SSS model.
Like I said, just look at the Ceriatone schematic.
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

Aaron wrote: Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:51 pm
Aaron wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:08 am #004 uses the trim. This amp was copied by Two Rock as the Custom Clean and is Ceriatone's SSS model.
Like I said, just look at the Ceriatone schematic.
The Ceriatone SSS (tube layout below) is missing 1 tube for the dry/wet signal mixers so it does not really help answering how did Dumble used 2 tubes with 4 individual triodes to mix dry/wet signals (4 plate loads and 4 cathode cap+resistor)

Ceriatones SSS:
V5 – 12AX7 / ECC83 (phase inverter)
V4 – 12AX7 / ECC83 (reverb / preamp mixer)
V3 – 12AT7 / ECC81 (reverb driver)
V2 – 12AX7 / ECC83 (reverb send / return)
V1 – 12AX7 / ECC83 (preamp gain stages)
Aaron
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Aaron »

How is it missing if you've listed below, V4.
Look at the John Mayer Signature it's pretty much a SSS#004 without filters.

Aaron
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

Aaron wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:18 am How is it missing if you've listed below, V4.
Look at the John Mayer Signature it's pretty much a SSS#004 without filters.

Aaron
Not really Aaron. If you check the gut shot of #004 and do the tube count you will notice it has 1 more tube than the Ceriatone SSS, the Two Rock Custom Clean/Sterling and Two Rock John Mayer. #004 has V3 and V4 mixing the wet and dry signals, unlike the others which have the same tube mixing both with 1 triode on each side

Now the main difference between #004 and #001/#002 which also use 2 full tubes as dry/wet mixers is that #004 has individual cathode cap + resistor and plate load for each triode of each of the mixing tubes making 4 in total versus 2 on #001/#002

If you look closely into the gut shots I wrote on top of, on previous posts it might make this more clear

In summary (excluding the power tubes) #004 had 6 tubes with 8 pre amp plate loads; Ceriatone has 5 tubes with 6 pre amp plate loads; #002 has 7 tubes with 6 pre amp plate loads (extra tube vs #004 being the PI driver)

#004 tube layout:
V1 pre amp
V2 reverb send / return
V3 Reverb (wet) recovery/mixer
V4 Filter (dry) recovery/mixer
V5 Reverb driver
V6 PI

Ceriatone & Two Rock Custom Clean/ Sterling John Mayer tube layout:
V1 pre amp
V2 reverb send / return
V3 Reverb driver
V4 Dry/wet mix
V5 PI
Aaron
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Aaron »

Rafael,

If you look closely at the top of the chassis or closely from the back of the chassis you'll notice that there actually is no tube on the bottom right. The circuit board has allowed for one, but in the final design it wasn't used.

Aaron
User avatar
M Fowler
Posts: 14017
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:19 am
Location: Walcott ND

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by M Fowler »

Aaron are you talking about the #004 SSS? There are 6 preamp tubes.
SSS4 008.jpg
sss_front004.jpg
SSS inside chassis shot.bmp
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Aaron
Posts: 641
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 pm

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Aaron »

M Fowler wrote: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:11 pm Aaron are you talking about the #004 SSS? There are 6 preamp tubes.

SSS4 008.jpgsss_front004.jpgSSS inside chassis shot.bmp
Hi Mark,
There is only 5. There is no valve base in the chassis. There's the row of three at the front.
Then there is the PI tube, reverb transformer with the cap can in front, then reverb driver. RCA plugs in front.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Bombacaototal
Posts: 1669
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:53 am

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by Bombacaototal »

Thanks Aaron and Mark for contributing to this conversation

Aaron, that is interesting. Do you assume then that on the bottom board, on the right hand side that the resistors and caps, specially the 2 plate loads and 2 cathode cap + 2 cathode resistors are not being used in the circuit at all?

Because with 5 tubes, 1 being the PI and 1 being the reverb driver (which had the cathode cap and resistor on the top left side of the bottom board) there are only 3 tubes left or 6 triodes (6 plate loads and 6 cathodes). But the gut shots show 8 plate loads and 8 cathodes, meaning that 2 of each must not be in use
Last edited by Bombacaototal on Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
M Fowler
Posts: 14017
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:19 am
Location: Walcott ND

Re: Evolution of SSS

Post by M Fowler »

Here a .jpg version of that gut shot.
SSS_Stealth.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Post Reply