Evolution of SSS

[Bombacaototal]

I was reading some old posts and came across the following

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 229#p91229

The first 4 are 100W, so Henry Kaiser has 1 and 4, 3 is lindley's and 2 the one John mayer has now. #5 is the one EJ used to own, and SRV's KTC amp was(is) #7 both are 150W

We also know that #001 to #007 were silverface

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 50#p174498

I recall the Reverb recover/mixer and recover from the filters as being the same tube in the more modern incarnations. the early one actually mixed at the master via cathoe folowers!

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... +alligator

I have had 4 s.s.s. in my shop ,they all used feedback in each preamp stage and they had e.q. switchs. The early ones used cathode feedback and the later ones used feed back like the ods.

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8532

Later 150W singers, it has only 1 Local feedback loop, the earlier ones like Henry Kaiser and The one John Mayer has are 100W, those amps have inductors and LOTS of feedback loops.

Interesting that both evolution concepts have been incorporated into Hartman design (ODS like LNFB and 1 dry/wet mixer tube)

One thing I haven't seen though is the following

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... im#p209806

Some are 150W and some 300W (300SL). Some are built for bass, some for guitar. Some have filters with 6 steps (300SL e.g.), most 150W Dumblelands I know have filters with 7 steps, but at least one Dumbleland150W I know has filters with 11 steps, and the EF 86 Dumbleland 150W has no filters at all. Some have reverb, some not. Some with FET input, some without. Some have an internal trim pot to adjust the gain and sound of the filter section, some don't have this internal trim pot. And so on...

Has anyone in the forum experimented with this trim idea before the filter?

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0&start=15

- some with a three tube reverb, some with less tubes for the reverb
- at least one with a tremolo, most without
- some with only 5 preamp tubes, some with 6, some with 7
- some with inductors in the filter stage, some without inductors
- different tone stacks, different numbers of filter steps
- ...

I am wondering if anyone successfully implemented the filter without the inductor and if there is any info on the 2 tube reverb. Which SSS?

[Aaron]

Hi Rafael,

#004 uses the trim. This amp was copied by Two Rock as the Custom Clean and is Ceriatone's SSS model.

#005 has no inductor and has the two tube reverb circuit. Which is just basically the Twin Reverb preamp into the SVT power amp.

Aaron

[Bombacaototal]

Hi Rafael,

#004 uses the trim. This amp was copied by Two Rock as the Custom Clean and is Ceriatone's SSS model.

#005 has no inductor and has the two tube reverb circuit. Which is just basically the Twin Reverb preamp into the SVT power amp.

Aaron

Thanks a lot Aaron. That indeed helped me a lot to get some direction on what to look for;-)

[Krinkle]

"#005 has no inductor and has the two tube reverb circuit. Which is just basically the Twin Reverb preamp into the SVT power amp.

Aaron"

I love the sound that I'm getting from my 002 mod/build but the 005 is very intriguing to me as I'm a big EJ fan. But I can't figure out how to cram all of that circuitry into 5 preamp tubes. I'm not even sure that I would prefer 005 over 002 but it's fun to tinker with and think about.

So the reverb for 005 is one and a half tubes, a full 12AT7 and half a 12AX7, like the Twin? I keep hearing that 005 has 3 tube reverb?!? The Twin style reverb would make sense for the 005 because it would leave a single 12AX7 triode stage free. If you have 1 full 12AX7 tube for the EQ section, then would the Hi and Low switches use that leftover reverb 12AX7 triode stage, plate driven, for signal/gain recovery and mixer for the reverb and omit the cathode follower that was used in 002? If that was the case then I could see how 005 is able be a SSS with 5 preamp tubes.

I also keep hearing conflicting information about the EQ, whether it is classis low plate or Skyliner (low plate as well?).

This is a fun and interesting place.

[Bombacaototal]

"#005 has no inductor and has the two tube reverb circuit. Which is just basically the Twin Reverb preamp into the SVT power amp.

Aaron"

I love the sound that I'm getting from my 002 mod/build but the 005 is very intriguing to me as I'm a big EJ fan. But I can't figure out how to cram all of that circuitry into 5 preamp tubes. I'm not even sure that I would prefer 005 over 002 but it's fun to tinker with and think about.

So the reverb for 005 is one and a half tubes, a full 12AT7 and half a 12AX7, like the Twin? I keep hearing that 005 has 3 tube reverb?!? The Twin style reverb would make sense for the 005 because it would leave a single 12AX7 triode stage free. If you have 1 full 12AX7 tube for the EQ section, then would the Hi and Low switches use that leftover reverb 12AX7 triode stage, plate driven, for signal/gain recovery and mixer for the reverb and omit the cathode follower that was used in 002? If that was the case then I could see how 005 is able be a SSS with 5 preamp tubes.

I also keep hearing conflicting information about the EQ, whether it is classis low plate or Skyliner (low plate as well?).

This is a fun and interesting place.

Basically Eric Johnson (which some claim is #005, but I heard comments that it might actually be the #007) is a low plate skyliner (and most like Larry Carlton one, anyone knows the #?). I believe it started as a Classic and was later updated
The Reverb is ab763 and the power section is like a svt amp (ie #002) but with 4x6550
I would assume the filter would be where the 3.3M resistor is on the fender and use the fender v4b recovery
It also only has 1 LNFB like the 80's ods (ie #124)

[Aaron]

If you have 1 full 12AX7 tube for the EQ section, then would the Hi and Low switches use that leftover reverb 12AX7 triode stage, plate driven, for signal/gain recovery and mixer for the reverb and omit the cathode follower that was used in 002? If that was the case then I could see how 005 is able be a SSS with 5 preamp tubes.

I also keep hearing conflicting information about the EQ, whether it is classis low plate or Skyliner (low plate as well?).

This is a fun and interesting place.

Correct, then mod to suit the tone you're after.

Don't worry about what HAD used, if you like classic, go for it. If you like skyliner go for it. I don't know why people get hung up on exact values on a particular amp. Remember, THESE WERE BUILT TO SUIT EACH INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS TONE. Just cause a classic circuit was used in a certain amp, might not suit someone else. He also did a bluesmaster circuit too. So there's three different preamps to choose from. Plus high plate and low plate, pre classic, 2nd gen etc.

I was playing my modded #002 build the other day and forgot how nice it sounded, I had a look inside and was surprised to see the values I settled on. I had spent such a long time getting the tone I was after with this amp.

Have fun with them and experiment. And make a lot of noise:)

Aaron

[Krinkle]

Nice info guys, thanks!!

For sure. I'm not worried about what HAD used, just curious. Like I said, I don't even know if I would prefer 005 over 002. I'm new to the SSS circuitry and it's really interesting for me to find out stuff that you guys have probably talked to death, so please bear with me.

I actually built up a Skyliner EQ on a piece of G10, disconnected the Classic EQ and connected up the Skyliner in my 002 mod. I actually preferred the classic. Go figure eh?

[Bombacaototal]

Hi Rafael,

#004 uses the trim. This amp was copied by Two Rock as the Custom Clean and is Ceriatone's SSS model.

#005 has no inductor and has the two tube reverb circuit. Which is just basically the Twin Reverb preamp into the SVT power amp.

Aaron

I spent a considerable amount of time checking the guts of Ceriatone SSS and the schematic you had done back in 2012. Attached an updated version of the schematic with what I managed to find/correct

I think the ceriatone version is more like their take on SSS#004 then a copy of the circuit (all the switching aside). I am almost sure the original is Low Plate Classic and the Ceriatone seems to be a variation of a low plate skyliner with 100k slope and a smaller resistor on the bass pot

Is the approach to the filter trimmer correct?

One thing I noticed is that the Ceriatone has the 2 resistors after the trim (most likely 100k, 470k) but I could not see the inductor (which some people here who tested said it makes no difference) and also could not find the caps (.01, .001) which come before the filter itself

Also not sure the V1A LNFB is a Dumble thing? Anyone?

[Bombacaototal]

On the Two Rock Sterling (which is same as custom clean but with some NOS parts) the trim and inductor are a bit more evident. Similar to Ceriatone I can see 2 resistors and not the 2 caps. I think the coupling cap is replacing them

I can see now looking at the circuit and the layout that the Ceriatone is actually a copy of the Sterling

The Sterling also has these 2 different LNFBs on V1. I am wondering where the idea for V1A LNFB came from? Maybe a later Dumble model?

[Krinkle]

It also only has 1 LNFB like the 80's ods (ie #124)

Do you mean the 4 10M resistors and the 0.05uF cap from the plate of V1b to it's grid?

[Bombacaototal]

It also only has 1 LNFB like the 80's ods (ie #124)

Do you mean the 4 10M resistors and the 0.05uF cap from the plate of V1b to it's grid?

Yes, from what I recall someone who had access to the amp wrote...it is somehwere in this thread.... http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... +an+update

Although I am certain it had only 1 LNFB in pre amp, and not like the early SSS (link on my first post)

Maybe some of the "old school" people here can shed some light

[Aaron]

One thing I noticed is that the Ceriatone has the 2 resistors after the trim (most likely 100k, 470k) but I could not see the inductor (which some people here who tested said it makes no difference) and also could not find the caps (.01, .001) which come before the filter itself

Also not sure the V1A LNFB is a Dumble thing? Anyone?

Follow the purple and green wires. The inductor is on the other side of the chassis.
#004 has the LNFB on V1.

Aaron

[Bombacaototal]

One thing I noticed is that the Ceriatone has the 2 resistors after the trim (most likely 100k, 470k) but I could not see the inductor (which some people here who tested said it makes no difference) and also could not find the caps (.01, .001) which come before the filter itself

Also not sure the V1A LNFB is a Dumble thing? Anyone?

Follow the purple and green wires. The inductor is on the other side of the chassis.
#004 has the LNFB on V1.

Aaron

Thanks Aaron, so you think that #004 had both V1A and V1B LNFB (similar to Hartman design but working simultaneously instead )?

Regarding the schematic am I on the right track on the trimmer and omitting the .1 and .001 caps?

I was checking the gut of #004 and i can see the inductor (red square) but could not spot the trimmer (I could only see the PI trimmer)

[M Fowler]

There is a .02 OD cap before the 1M trimmer then onto 470k and 100k resistors one either side of the large .900h inductor bolted to the top side that looks like a transformer.

Ceriatone had access to a SSS and made their version based off that amp, I do not know what serial number the amp was.

[mhartman]

There is a .02 OD cap before the 1M trimmer then onto 470k and 100k resistors one either side of the large .900h inductor bolted to the top side that looks like a transformer.

Ceriatone had access to a SSS and made their version based off that amp, I do not know what serial number the amp was.

I'm pretty sure that Ceriatone based theirs on the Sterling Signature or Custom Clean (exact same Amp by the way), not on an actual SSS. Two Rock based theirs on SSS #4, but dropped on of the mixer tubes, which is also reflected in the Ceriatone copy.