Eliminate effects loop ?

[joe6v6]

I am working on a #102 and I want to eliminate the effects loop, is it as simple as attaching the wiper of the master volume to the .02 cap that goes to the grid of v3 or is there something else to consider?

[pompeiisneaks]

yes it is a non buffered loop, that acts just like you've drawn it if there's nothing plugged into either jack. So effectively removing them and just connecting between those two points is identical as them not being used.

~Phil

[67plexi]

Times have changed the effects loop with the Dumbelator is a matched set if nothing else it controls the volume of the amp.
Most of the time I use a AC-15 type amp EF-86 volume with a 7 position rotary treble switch and on stage get bitched out if my volume is past 2 to loud.
If I want to play any of my ODS type amps the Dumberator is a must have tool.

[Guitarman18]

Times have changed the effects loop with the Dumbelator is a matched set if nothing else it controls the volume of the amp.
Most of the time I use a AC-15 type amp EF-86 volume with a 7 position rotary treble switch and on stage get bitched out if my volume is past 2 to loud.
If I want to play any of my ODS type amps the Dumberator is a must have tool.

+1 - absolutely correct.

Particularly with #102, the D'lator in the loop is an integral part of the system that makes #102 what it is! Without the D'lator, #102 is way too bright.

Cheers,

Paul.

[joe6v6]

So if nothing else I should include the unbuffered loop so I can plug a buffered loop into it. How hard is it to shoehorn a D-Lator into the amp? I remember reading about amps with a "built in" D-Lator. Any benifit to having it built in? Can someone point me to the most popular version of the D-lator Layout/Schematic. Thanks : Joe

[norburybrook]

Times have changed the effects loop with the Dumbelator is a matched set if nothing else it controls the volume of the amp.
Most of the time I use a AC-15 type amp EF-86 volume with a 7 position rotary treble switch and on stage get bitched out if my volume is past 2 to loud.
If I want to play any of my ODS type amps the Dumberator is a must have tool.

+1 - absolutely correct.

Particularly with #102, the D'lator in the loop is an integral part of the system that makes #102 what it is! Without the D'lator, #102 is way too bright.

Cheers,

Paul.

I don't expereience it as overly bright. Try a trainwreck!!!

I roll the tone down on my guitar a bit when using the OD but neither of my two #102's have been particualrly bright amps.

I didn't use the Dumbleator at all on my album.

Here's a clip of the OD from my 102 with no dumbleator. thinline telecaster, bridge humbucker, tone rolled down to 6 amp setting in the picture.

https://soundcloud.com/marcus-cliffe/spell-solo


M

[martin manning]

So if nothing else I should include the unbuffered loop so I can plug a buffered loop into it. How hard is it to shoehorn a D-Lator into the amp? I remember reading about amps with a "built in" D-Lator. Any benifit to having it built in? Can someone point me to the most popular version of the D-lator Layout/Schematic.

Adding a Dumbleator to an ODS is not trivial, and if you are used to working with ready-to-use layouts there will be some learning. I'm also in the camp that doesn't see the Dumbleator as an essential piece of the ODS sound. There are plenty of other ways to adjust brightness, and the amp's master volume does a fine job as-is. The D'lator does provide some flexibility, and some additional tone control options even with nothing in the loop.

[67plexi]

I'm not sure how to explain this at home in my studio or living room I don't use a Dumbelator I love playing loud that said'
The venues our band plays range from 200 people to 5,000 people it's the sound man as an example my favorite ODS type amp volume 2 master volume 2 50' away
puts out 140 DB Keith has been my sound man for 34 years if I use the Dumblator and drop the volume down to 98 DB I'm not going to drive the crowd out of the venue
If I have some other sound man they put a limiter on my amp mic and it cuts out my guitar amp out of the mains and monitors not good.
Let me correct this on stage I have to use a Dumbelator. I can crank my amp up to the sweet spot and not drive the people out of the building.

[dcribbs1412]

Here's a clip of the OD from my 102 with no dumbleator. thinline telecaster, bridge humbucker, tone rolled down to 6 amp setting in the picture.

https://soundcloud.com/marcus-cliffe/spell-solo


M

Just wanted to say clip sounds outstanding! Marcus
Also adding the dlator internally is a bit of a challenge(more parts, possible added noise)
but I believe worth it. Agree with dropping volume down with loop after finding the rooms sweet spot is nice added option.

D

[joe6v6]

A friend of mine said he noticed a significant decrease in volume when pluging some pedales into the unbufferd loop on another amp I built, Is this normal with the unbufferd loop & would the dumbleator correct this? tx - Joe

[pompeiisneaks]

A friend of mine said he noticed a significant decrease in volume when pluging some pedales into the unbufferd loop on another amp I built, Is this normal with the unbufferd loop & would the dumbleator correct this? tx - Joe

Yes and yes.

Unbuffered loops will cause signal loss. The whole point of the dumbleator is to be a buffered effects loop to mitigate this signal loss.

~Phil

[Guitarman18]

Times have changed the effects loop with the Dumbelator is a matched set if nothing else it controls the volume of the amp.
Most of the time I use a AC-15 type amp EF-86 volume with a 7 position rotary treble switch and on stage get bitched out if my volume is past 2 to loud.
If I want to play any of my ODS type amps the Dumberator is a must have tool.

+1 - absolutely correct.

Particularly with #102, the D'lator in the loop is an integral part of the system that makes #102 what it is! Without the D'lator, #102 is way too bright.

Cheers,

Paul.

I don't expereience it as overly bright. Try a trainwreck!!!

I roll the tone down on my guitar a bit when using the OD but neither of my two #102's have been particualrly bright amps.

I didn't use the Dumbleator at all on my album.

Here's a clip of the OD from my 102 with no dumbleator. thinline telecaster, bridge humbucker, tone rolled down to 6 amp setting in the picture.

https://soundcloud.com/marcus-cliffe/spell-solo


M

Really great tones Marcus!

I totally agree that the D'lator doesn't have to be an essential part of the 'ODS' sound, as Martin says. However, having a separate D'lator gives you an alternative sound palette, and can be used with any subsequent amps you build.

My feelings with #102 though are slightly different. At lower volumes, having that 68pF across the Master makes a significant difference to the brightness. If you are able to turn it up nicely (as I suspect Marcus has done), the 68pF cap has less significance and is a great sounding amp. My #102 opens up around 12-2 o'clock on the master, which would be way too loud for my everyday use, if it wasn't for the D'lator. So I feel it gives me the option of having nice tones at all volumes.
YMMV.

All the best,

Paul.

[norburybrook]

+1 - absolutely correct.

Particularly with #102, the D'lator in the loop is an integral part of the system that makes #102 what it is! Without the D'lator, #102 is way too bright.

Cheers,

Paul.

I don't expereience it as overly bright. Try a trainwreck!!!

I roll the tone down on my guitar a bit when using the OD but neither of my two #102's have been particualrly bright amps.

I didn't use the Dumbleator at all on my album.

Here's a clip of the OD from my 102 with no dumbleator. thinline telecaster, bridge humbucker, tone rolled down to 6 amp setting in the picture.

https://soundcloud.com/marcus-cliffe/spell-solo


M

Really great tones Marcus!

I totally agree that the D'lator doesn't have to be an essential part of the 'ODS' sound, as Martin says. However, having a separate D'lator gives you an alternative sound palette, and can be used with any subsequent amps you build.

My feelings with #102 though are slightly different. At lower volumes, having that 68pF across the Master makes a significant difference to the brightness. If you are able to turn it up nicely (as I suspect Marcus has done), the 68pF cap has less significance and is a great sounding amp. My #102 opens up around 12-2 o'clock on the master, which would be way too loud for my everyday use, if it wasn't for the D'lator. So I feel it gives me the option of having nice tones at all volumes.
YMMV.

All the best,

Paul.

Paul,

thanks for the kind words.

I agree 100% about the dumbleator. I have one and it's really usefull live, it adds another level of tome and level changes.

You're right, in the studio I have my amp in the 12-2 O'clock range, it really does open up then. My original reply was to realy put the point across that the amp sounds great with or without the dumbleator.

I do think though that anyone who builds any Dumble amp should build a dumbleator too.

M