#183 5th Generation ODS Skyliner. Layout/Schematic discussion

[Charlie Wilson]

I always had thought that the OT in #183 was made for Magic Parts by Pacific but looking at the photo it looks more like a Thorarsen. I was able to get a Twin OT and it looks close. Tony if you are Ebay shopping get some Roderstein Mk3 for 150k plates and both preamp cathodes. The 220k plates are NTE. Also, that new production NTE resistors and capacitors are not the same.
CW

[donvan]

BTW>I hate when these vendor/distributors sell these things with no specs (codes),and the little they give you is I assume a typo "Showman/Twin 2X6L6GC"

That's one of the main reasons I ruled out the Magic Parts TF130. I couldn't stomach paying top dollar for a part with no specs and typos in the description. I had no idea what I would be getting for $200.

I'd be very interested to hear what power transfromer you end up going with. I went with Heyboer.

[Matt J]

I'm still finalizing parts for my own 50 watt #183 build too, Tony.

For the PT I have on order the custom PT from Heyboer Ultra used on his 100 watt build that has been posted on here. HTS-10359. It's got an extra 6.3v tap to run the relays so I don't have to use a secondary transformer. Haven't made the final decision on an OT yet, but I'm leaning towards Classictone's 40-18025 50w Plexi OT. I'm not entirely certain what the proper 50 watt equivalent would be for the original OT that HAD used in #183

I'm probably going full set of Sprague 6PS for the coupling caps, even though #183 had some 715s and NTEs mixed in. The preamp will be metal films, though I don't know if I'll use NTEs or some of the Xicons I have in stock. For the OD circuitry I'm going with carbon films. I'm tempted to track down some NOS Pihers to use there.

- Matt J.

[UltraHookedOnPhonix]

I used the Magic Parts TF-130 for my BM build and just to echo what Steve said: don't use it for your #183 Talbany!

Why? It's 640VCT whereas 183 was in the 680VCT range. I've attached a pic of my BM, TF-130 datasheet, and a viable replacement from Heyboer [I see you got there before me Matt!]

With the Heyboer HTS-10359 tranny, I got very close to the real-deal values. Have a look:

Real-deal Voltages:

B+ 465V
Screens after 1.5K resistor is 462V
PI 307.7V/302.2V
Cathode 58.9V
OD2 207V plate, 1.67V cathode
OD1 204V/1.78V
CL2 206V/1.51V
CL1 207V/1.67V

My loaded B+ is 462V, biased at the same static plate dissipation as the real one (30.3mA).

My BM's loaded B+ with the TF-130 is 441V. 20V diff!

[donvan]

I
With the Heyboer HTS-10359 tranny, I got very close to the real-deal values.

That's the transformer that I'm using in my current build. Glad to hear that the voltages are close. Are you pleased with the tone of your amp?

[Matt J]

I used the Magic Parts TF-130 for my BM build and just to echo what Steve said: don't use it for your #183 Talbany!

Why? It's 640VCT whereas 183 was in the 680VCT range. I've attached a pic of my BM, TF-130 datasheet, and a viable replacement from Heyboer [I see you got there before me Matt!]

Thanks again, Ultra, for telling me about that PT!

BTW, on your #183 build, what type/value of cap is that you have going across the standby switch?

- Matt J.

[Charlie Wilson]

Oops, I assumed we were talking about the output transformer. I always thought #183 had a Fender Twin power transformer but from the photo I can see that it is not.
CW

[talbany]

I always had thought that the OT in #183 was made for Magic Parts by Pacific but looking at the photo it looks more like a Thorarsen. I was able to get a Twin OT and it looks close. Tony if you are Ebay shopping get some Roderstein Mk3 for 150k plates and both preamp cathodes. The 220k plates are NTE. Also, that new production NTE resistors and capacitors are not the same.
CW

quote] Yep it looks like Dumble used both NTE & MK3's I wonder if there is a method to the madness or just what he had on hand.great more Dumbleore /quote]

IMG_7910 copy.jpeg

Here is what I have so far!, several blister packs of HW415 NTE's. Of course they are 150K's Are these the older ones your thinking of? I am still looking out for the 220K's I've been keeping an eye out for the MK3's as well but so far no luck on the values I need.
I still have some of my older 1% KOA's should be Ok for the cathodes.
For the CF's I am using the Dralorics and a few Pihers

NTE 150k.jpg

I used the Magic Parts TF-130 for my BM build and just to echo what Steve said: don't use it for your #183 Talbany!

Why? It's 640VCT whereas 183 was in the 680VCT range. I've attached a pic of my BM, TF-130 datasheet, and a viable replacement from Heyboer [I see you got there before me Matt!]

With the Heyboer HTS-10359 tranny, I got very close to the real-deal values. Have a look:

Real-deal Voltages:

B+ 465V
Screens after 1.5K resistor is 462V
PI 307.7V/302.2V
Cathode 58.9V
OD2 207V plate, 1.67V cathode
OD1 204V/1.78V
CL2 206V/1.51V
CL1 207V/1.67V

My loaded B+ is 462V, biased at the same static plate dissipation as the real one (30.3mA).
/quote]
Thanks Jonas!





BTW.Here is a shot of 192 Music Man.The plates look to be all MK3's

DSC00445.jpg

Tony

[Charlie Wilson]

Tony, PM an address and I'll send you a blister pack of the 220k NTE. The Roderstein MK3 150k, 2k2, and 3k3 are on Ebay right now from a guy in Taiwan. No problems, I purchased some from him and received them quicker than I expected.
CW

[67plexi]

Just to be clear I used the Heyboer HTS-10359 PT on my #183 build and a Dagnall C1998 OPT from 1968

What I did use a NOS Magic Parts Twin set on was my #102 build it started off with a 1971 Fender Twin set it was 90% when I switched to the Magic parts set it turned
my #102 amp into a harmonic generator

[talbany]

Tony, PM an address and I'll send you a blister pack of the 220k NTE. The Roderstein MK3 150k, 2k2, and 3k3 are on Ebay right now from a guy in Taiwan. No problems, I purchased some from him and received them quicker than I expected.
CW

Thanks Charlie PM sent!.

Sweet Build Man! CF looks to be a combo of Draloric /LCA/ROE/Q-lines?

Tony

[UltraHookedOnPhonix]

I used the Magic Parts TF-130 for my BM build and just to echo what Steve said: don't use it for your #183 Talbany!

Why? It's 640VCT whereas 183 was in the 680VCT range. I've attached a pic of my BM, TF-130 datasheet, and a viable replacement from Heyboer [I see you got there before me Matt!]

Thanks again, Ultra, for telling me about that PT!

BTW, on your #183 build, what type/value of cap is that you have going across the standby switch?

- Matt J.

Hey Matt!

The cap is a 0.01uF (1KV), NTE 90310 Ceramic Disc.

Also, please note concerning the HTS-10359: the relay power secondary is 6.3V @ 500mA. If you're full wave rectifying that secondary, use a 5V regulator and 5V relays! I used a NTE960 regulator and NTE R40-11D2-5 relays.

[UltraHookedOnPhonix]

I
With the Heyboer HTS-10359 tranny, I got very close to the real-deal values.

That's the transformer that I'm using in my current build. Glad to hear that the voltages are close. Are you pleased with the tone of your amp?

Yes. I haven't played it in a while but it's a monster!

[Matt J]

I used the Magic Parts TF-130 for my BM build and just to echo what Steve said: don't use it for your #183 Talbany!

Why? It's 640VCT whereas 183 was in the 680VCT range. I've attached a pic of my BM, TF-130 datasheet, and a viable replacement from Heyboer [I see you got there before me Matt!]

Thanks again, Ultra, for telling me about that PT!

BTW, on your #183 build, what type/value of cap is that you have going across the standby switch?

- Matt J.

Hey Matt!

The cap is a 0.01uF (1KV), NTE 90310 Ceramic Disc.

Also, please note concerning the HTS-10359: the relay power secondary is 6.3V @ 500mA. If you're full wave rectifying that secondary, use a 5V regulator and 5V relays! I used a NTE960 regulator and NTE R40-11D2-5 relays.

Thanks for pointing that out, Ultra! I'm going to have to look over my relays and double check things. I currently have in my storage box some NTE R40-11D2-12 relays with this regulator from mouser:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/926-LM7812CT-NOPB

The board design is the same as the one attached. Looks like I might want to pick up some other relays and a 5V regulator to be safe.

- Matt J.

[donvan]

Also, please note concerning the HTS-10359: the relay power secondary is 6.3V @ 500mA. If you're full wave rectifying that secondary, use a 5V regulator and 5V relays! I used a NTE960 regulator and NTE R40-11D2-5 relays.

I am so glad I read this before I started soldering. I had totally missed the fact that the relay secondary was 6.3V rather than 12V. I bought 12 volt relays and regulator. Looks like I need to modify my relay power supply board and go with a voltage doubler like what is done in #124 - 2 less diodes and an extra capacitor. Thanks for pointing that out.