Jazz Mode Video Demo With Stratocaster and 102

[Chris Brown]

I've been experimenting with jazz mode and there are really some cool tones to be had. In this video I go through clean, overdrive, and a fuzz face into clean.

[xtian]

Nice job, Chris! The HRM (OD tone stack) is valuable to tune the OD EQ to match the clean channel. You can add an HRM stack pretty simply with a bit of additional eyelet board. Nice mode for ODS amps.

[aflynt]

I have the master bright cap on a switch and run it with the cap disconnected when I'm not using a Dumbleator, or if the master isn't cranked way up. I also have the gain (od level) control set up with a dual-pot that gradually brings in an HF taper as a turn it up. That evens out the brightness of the two channels. Jazz mode sounds clearer to me overall even with the level/gain and tone controls raised to bring the gain stages up to around the "rock" level. I prefer Jazz mode in general and always use that when I play live.

-Aaron

[talbany]

Chris
Cool demo!.
One question what are you using as a treble cap? A Sliver mica or a Ceramic?

Tony

[Chris Brown]

Chris
Cool demo!.
One question what are you using as a treble cap? A Sliver mica or a Ceramic?

Tony

Thanks 390pf Silver Mica

[Chris Brown]

Nice job, Chris! The HRM (OD tone stack) is valuable to tune the OD EQ to match the clean channel. You can add an HRM stack pretty simply with a bit of additional eyelet board. Nice mode for ODS amps.

I still haven't tried the HRM stack... I have been thinking about adding it to my ex-124... It's basically a 124 high plate.

[Chris Brown]

I have the master bright cap on a switch and run it with the cap disconnected when I'm not using a Dumbleator, or if the master isn't cranked way up. I also have the gain (od level) control set up with a dual-pot that gradually brings in an HF taper as a turn it up. That evens out the brightness of the two channels. Jazz mode sounds clearer to me overall even with the level/gain and tone controls raised to bring the gain stages up to around the "rock" level. I prefer Jazz mode in general and always use that when I play live.

-Aaron

The dual gang idea is awesome! I assume it also allows you to dial more highs on the clean sound without making the od sounds ultra brash. I almost always use the Dumbleator and when I want an easy rig I have a K-lator that I can throw on the pedalboard, but I rarely do that. I have a high cut knob for the od on my 124 that has come in handy a few times on ultra quiet gigs.

[talbany]

Chris
Cool demo!.
One question what are you using as a treble cap? A Sliver mica or a Ceramic?

Tony

Thanks 390pf Silver Mica

Cool!
So here is the deal with using a SM in an ODS. 1st Dumble rarely if at all used them.(I think I have seen them only in 2nd gen amps) He normally stayed away from them and here is why. The SM caps can definitely add some sparkle to the sound and is useful on the clean channel (especially with a Strat) however when you go to the OD side that extended top end can turn harsh with a kind of bright buzzing thing riding on top of the notes.(accentuate in Jazz mode) You cannot dial it out on a "Non-HRM' so you're stuck with it. Some people here try to add bandaids to it with treble bleeders after V2B or higher capacitance cables. So after dealing with this issue for some time I finally switched over to a ceramic cap (Dumble liked the XF5's) Sprague. Ceramics don't have the sparkle like a SM does but it does add 2nd order harmonics as well as a little hair around the notes and got rid of that buzzing thing and fattened up the OD. I know it's a trade-off but most Dumble purists I know out there say SM caps in this amp is a no-no for this very reason.
Now with all that being said I don't know if that is exactly what you are hearing and if this will 100% cure your problem,but here I am mentioning this to you if you want to try it and see if it helps.
Good Luck!

Tony
"You just can't go sticking different type parts in there and expect it to sound like a Dumble!"

[donvan]

Chris
Thanks for the video. Tone is a little easier to discuss with videos and sound files that we can all reference. I've been working on dialing the strat OD tone on my amp. I've found some success in both Rock and Jazz mode but in both cases I've had roll off the volume on my guitar. As an experiement try turning your guitar volume down to say 5 or 6, turn up your amp master volume to compensate, and I think you see will that the overdriven treble is not as harsh. Then roll of more treble with the guitar treble controls if needed. In my case, it does help eliminate some of the harsh fizzyness that rides on top of the sound.

Keep in mind that I may be searching a different tone than what you are looking for. I'm looking for something closer to what Gil (ayan) demonstrates on his strat/102 OD in his sound clip on page 4 of this thread:
https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=45

PIckups are also very important. I have a strat and a tele both with noiseless pickups. I have no problem getting nice OD sounds with the tele but struggle with the strat. I think this is because standard tele pickups are higher output than strat pickups.

In the sound file that I just referenced, I believe Gil uses Fender 57/62 pickups in his strat. Based on a pickup comparison article by Fender, 57/62s are some of the highest single coil output pickups that Fender makes. Maybe that's a clue?
https://www.fender.com/articles/gear/a- ... er-pickups

Since pickups seem to be an important part of the SKyliner/NON HRM/OD sound it would helpful to know what pickups your strat has.

Thanks again for posting your video,
Don

[talbany]

Chris
Thanks for the video. Tone is a little easier to discuss with videos and sound files that we can all reference. I've been working on dialing the strat OD tone on my amp. I've found some success in both Rock and Jazz mode but in both cases I've had roll off the volume on my guitar. As an experiement try turning your guitar volume down to say 5 or 6, turn up your amp master volume to compensate, and I think you see will that the overdriven treble is not as harsh. Then roll of more treble with the guitar treble controls if needed. In my case, it does help eliminate some of the harsh fizzyness that rides on top of the sound.

Keep in mind that I may be searching a different tone than what you are looking for. I'm looking for something closer to what Gil (ayan) demonstrates on his strat/102 OD in his sound clip on page 4 of this thread:
https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=45

PIckups are also very important. I have a strat and a tele both with noiseless pickups. I have no problem getting nice OD sounds with the tele but struggle with the strat. I think this is because standard tele pickups are higher output than strat pickups.

In the sound file that I just referenced, I believe Gil uses Fender 57/62 pickups in his strat. Based on a pickup comparison article by Fender, 57/62s are some of the highest single coil output pickups that Fender makes. Maybe that's a clue?
https://www.fender.com/articles/gear/a- ... er-pickups

Since pickups seem to be an important part of the SKyliner/NON HRM/OD sound it would helpful to know what pickups your strat has.

Thanks again for posting your video,
Don

Don
Funny you should mention Gil Ayan
Here is what he says about using Silver Mica caps in his ODS.

Those who have heard the words of Ken Fisher and David Funk are aware of the fact that these folks endorse the use of silver mica caps in Fenders and perhaps other amps as well. It has been my experience that in Fenders, the SM add a nice shimemr to the sound and for whatever reason, since they are more expensive perhaps, I stocked SMs over the years.



So, in my "D clone" I used silver micas without giving it a second thought. I will always struggle to get a better sound, as probably most of us will, because it is my genes... but, today I replaced the SMs with cheap 1K discs and the difference in sound was simply devastating... for the better. The harshness in the top end is greatly reduced (I would say "gone," but I know I will find something esle tomorrow), so much so that I don't really need to dial out treble after the OD to prevent my ears from hurting.



So, just this little experience of mine. If you are having trouble with a harsher top end than you'd like, get rid of those micas and perhaps you will find the results much more pleasant.

And From Scott Lerner.

A few observations....

You have a silver mica on the board in the tonestack. They don't sound as good as ceramic in the Dumble circuit.

Andy Fuchs

Silver Micas do have a unique sound of their own, (and some like the sound), but they are best used to stop oscillations and not to be listened through.

Brandon Montgomery (Bludotone)

I like the mallory 1KV disc caps .

I can list more
Tony

[donvan]

Tony,
Thanks for the good info on silver mica caps. I had not heard this. Fortunately I don't have any silver mica caps in my amp.

Don

[Charlie Wilson]

I agree with the comments regarding silver mica in Dumble amps. If you must use silver mica in other amp types, I would suggest the yellow CDE caps. Very expensive but they are way mellower on the top end. Also, not all ceramic discs sound the same. You have to play around with different ones to see what you like.
CW

[Chris Brown]

Chris
Cool demo!.
One question what are you using as a treble cap? A Sliver mica or a Ceramic?

Tony

Thanks 390pf Silver Mica

Cool!
So here is the deal with using a SM in an ODS. 1st Dumble rarely if at all used them.(I think I have seen them only in 2nd gen amps) He normally stayed away from them and here is why. The SM caps can definitely add some sparkle to the sound and is useful on the clean channel (especially with a Strat) however when you go to the OD side that extended top end can turn harsh with a kind of bright buzzing thing riding on top of the notes.(accentuate in Jazz mode) You cannot dial it out on a "Non-HRM' so you're stuck with it. Some people here try to add bandaids to it with treble bleeders after V2B or higher capacitance cables. So after dealing with this issue for some time I finally switched over to a ceramic cap (Dumble liked the XF5's) Sprague. Ceramics don't have the sparkle like a SM does but it does add 2nd order harmonics as well as a little hair around the notes and got rid of that buzzing thing and fattened up the OD. I know it's a trade-off but most Dumble purists I know out there say SM caps in this amp is a no-no for this very reason.
Now with all that being said I don't know if that is exactly what you are hearing and if this will 100% cure your problem,but here I am mentioning this to you if you want to try it and see if it helps.
Good Luck!

Tony
"You just can't go sticking different type parts in there and expect it to sound like a Dumble!"

Thanks so much! I will try ceramic for sure... This amp is pretty sweet, but if there is a way to get more balance between clean and od without going hrm then I want it Also, my 124 always has something on the top end that I can't dial out... perhaps a ceramic will do the trick.

[norburybrook]

Thanks 390pf Silver Mica

Cool!
So here is the deal with using a SM in an ODS. 1st Dumble rarely if at all used them.(I think I have seen them only in 2nd gen amps) He normally stayed away from them and here is why. The SM caps can definitely add some sparkle to the sound and is useful on the clean channel (especially with a Strat) however when you go to the OD side that extended top end can turn harsh with a kind of bright buzzing thing riding on top of the notes.(accentuate in Jazz mode) You cannot dial it out on a "Non-HRM' so you're stuck with it. Some people here try to add bandaids to it with treble bleeders after V2B or higher capacitance cables. So after dealing with this issue for some time I finally switched over to a ceramic cap (Dumble liked the XF5's) Sprague. Ceramics don't have the sparkle like a SM does but it does add 2nd order harmonics as well as a little hair around the notes and got rid of that buzzing thing and fattened up the OD. I know it's a trade-off but most Dumble purists I know out there say SM caps in this amp is a no-no for this very reason.
Now with all that being said I don't know if that is exactly what you are hearing and if this will 100% cure your problem,but here I am mentioning this to you if you want to try it and see if it helps.
Good Luck!

Tony
"You just can't go sticking different type parts in there and expect it to sound like a Dumble!"

Thanks so much! I will try ceramic for sure... This amp is pretty sweet, but if there is a way to get more balance between clean and od without going hrm then I want it Also, my 124 always has something on the top end that I can't dial out... perhaps a ceramic will do the trick.

LOl, it's what the tone control on your guitar is for



M

[donvan]

Chris, what pickups do you have in your strat?