Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

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ayan
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Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by ayan »

After a few years of using almost exclusively pedals through either backline equipment or my amps as clean platforms, earlier this year I decided to start using my amp’s overdrive again. I think that most of us who have built amps are perfectionists and I also believe that amp tweaking is addictive. Bad combination! That being the case, it came as no surprise that as soon as I went back to using my amp’s OD channel, I started wondering what I could do improve the sound. Most ODS builds based on a given schematic will probably result in at least a good, if not a very good sounding amp. However, things can always be better, right?

This time around, I went about it differently than I would have a decade ago. Before breaking out the soldering iron, I chatted with Jelle Welagen and Tony Albany at length – thanks guys. I’d built my last amp exactly 10 years ago and it soon became apparent to me that there had been some developments that I hadn’t followed in the last decade. My last “ah ha!” moments 10-15 years ago had been getting access to a few amps, orienting plastic caps and setting the PI trimmer. It seems that since then, a great deal of effort has gone into finding the right parts for amps.

I currently have two amps, one of them is a low plate Skyliner, my 7th build, that I gig with and that has been my go-to amp since about 2007. The other is my 9th build, a 102 clone that’s been sitting in my living room for 10 years and that hardly ever gets gigged. Not that it matters too much, but I’ll add that both amps had undergone a lot of changes back in the day before ending up in their current configurations. I thought I’d experiment on the 102, since it’s the spare one. I built this amp in a Brandon Montgomery chassis and put Brandon’s Heyboer Fender Twin PT and OT in it. I used a mix of resistors that included a few old NTE MFs (the good ones), KOA Speer MFs, “reissue” Dales and a lot of older Xicon CFs. Plastic caps are all 6PS type through and through, and true to the original, the Treble cap is a silver mica, big cap that either Brandon or Gary Johnson had sent me 10 years ago – I sincerely forget who.

I called Jelle and we discussed what I could do to have a more refined sounding 102 amp, with a better singing quality, more sustain, etc., etc. He said he’d done a lot of research on resistors and that that was the ticket. He recommended I tried something other than the Dales on the plates, and that I replaced all of the CFs with LCA0414 Roederstein Draloric. After the makeover, the amp now has CFs throughout the preamp except for the V1 and V2 plates and cathodes and the 4.7K feedback resistor from the OT‘s secondary which is an old NTE. V1’s grid stoppers are also NTEs, V2’s are CF. For the record, I’d never used the CF resistors Jelle recommended. He explained that the LCA0414 Draloric share a lot of the old Q Line characteristics; those resistors as well as the old red Pihers were all over HAD’s older builds. Jelle has a large stock of the Dralorics and you can get them from him on eBay. The snob in me, back in the day, would have probably scoffed at what I’m about to say, but how about if most of the “tweaking” and customization Dumble did for his clients was selecting different parts to use in each build? I’ve come to think there’s definitely something to this. Anyway, a few days later I got a whole bunch of resistors from Jelle to put into my 102. He also suggested I tried a 715 instead of a 6PS Orange Drop for the Middle cap. Over the years, there has been a lot of discussion about using a different type of cap for the Middle slot, but I had never paid much attention to it.

Making the changes outlined above on an already built amp represented a lot of work, at least for someone as meticulous as me, so I knew I was not going to get this done in one pass. Instead, I chipped away at it and then stopped to listen, then continued to work some more. I was also able to gig the amp somewhere along the way. I’ll try to describe the changes and their effects in general terms so that they can serve as reference for anyone interested.

1. Resistors

The V1 and V2 plate resistors were easy to change and had some effect on the tone in OD, making the sound a little more even, for lack of a better description. The Dales were a bit more jagged sounding. The remaining resistor changes encompassed a very large group, so it’d be harder to say which one of them all had the biggest impact since I changed a few at a time. Common sense could suggest that resistors that are always in the signal path, like the OD output resistors, may have a larger impact than the resistor at the tail of the bass pot. But what I can sincerely say is this: every single change got me a little closer. I took a picture of the amp, attached here, while it still had Xicon CFs at V2’s grid stoppers and at the input jack. I had gigged the amp like that was it sounded great, but I went ahead and replaced those as well. It sounded better afterwards. At this point I’m willing to believe just about anything with regards an amp’s secret sauces. The collective effect of the resistors was in a way similar to what I’d heard the first time I had oriented the caps’ outer foils where they needed to go. The amp sounds purer after the change. The tone has more sustain than grind, both clean and OD are less spikey, the clean channel has a little more compression, etc. Basically, the amp sounds more musical. I was checking in with Jelle while I was making the changes, and at some point, he said “Now you have been able to hear what distortion coming from resistors sounds like.” He’s right. I can turn the preamp volume all the way up and the OD Level all the way up, dialing in all the gain the preamp will put out, and the sound is still musical. Before, it would get to a point where I would either have to change the tone control settings, or back off on the gain because the amp would start sounding like crap if the amount of gain was too large.

2. Midrange Cap

I changed the .01 uF Middle cap, replacing the 6PS with a 715. The difference was very noticeable to me as the 715 seems to focus the midrange more. If anyone feels their amp is bottom heavy, which is a common complaint about the Skyliner tone stack, the 715 cap will change that for the better. When I first installed it, the low-end response changed so much that it kind of freaked me out and I put the 6PS back in. The next day, I put the 715 back in and took the amp to the gig.

3. OD HF Taper

Through the years, I went back and forth on this a few times. Early on, I used it. After getting the caps’ outer foils orientation correct, I got rid of it. When I added a larger bright cap on the Master volume, because I liked what it did to the clean, I reinstalled it and it stayed there. I had also tried using a 180K OD output resistor, instead of 150K, but I didn’t like that it decreased the available OD volume somewhat. In the end, I had opted for staying with the 150K and using the HF trim. This time around, I disconnected the HF trim and used a 180K Draloric resistor from Jelle. I will put it this way: I found that the HF trim, which for me was a .001uF cap and the 1 M trimmer dialed in at about 350-400K to ground, has more of an effect on the OD volume than using the 180K output resistor. The overdrive is on the bright side but it is very musical at the same time.

After all the changes, my amp might as well be another amp all together. I’ve been having to rethink my settings as well, and I’ll give you and example. Before, I would have the bass turned up, otherwise the Middle control doesn’t do much, but I’d have to turn the Middle higher still because otherwise the bass would make the sound stiff. So that setting was, at the end of the day, a compromise. Now, I can turn the bass up and leave the Middle halfway up, for example, and the sound will be good. I can turn the Middle up a bit for a little more gain, for example, and the sound will be different, and also good. With the three tone controls are about halfway up, I can switch back and forth between the Lead and Rhythm pickups on a Gibson and get a good sound. For a fatter lead tone with more of that low-end roar, I can turn the Treble down a click or two and maybe the bass up also one click or two, and the sound is there. Turning the Middle up at that point will get more of honky sound and focus the low end more and get you further away from a RF type of tone. If this sounds subtle, it really is not.

Bottom line, I’ve had a lot of fun tweaking the 102 and I’m enthused about gigging it and getting to know it better. Had a gig last week halfway through the changes and I loved the results. I have another gig tomorrow and I can’t wait. So, for all TAG tweakers, I recommend you consider a similar resistor makeover if you feel you’d like to try to get more mileage out of your amp. If you’re happy with your amp, leave it alone and maybe don’t come hang out at TAG! 😊 The parts I mentioned can be readily bought, at least for now, and will not set you back a significant amount. It will be a fair amount of work, though. The next chapter for me will be to do the same for the low plate Skyliner and see how I like that.

Gil
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norburybrook
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by norburybrook »

thanks Gil,


An interesting read and journey. These amps certainly are 'special' in the way they work and as tweakers they can drive you round the bend :D

It also makes a big difference what guitar you're playing, in that it's a lot easier to tune your rig to one guitar than trying to get it to work with many.

I had a friend over a few months ago who's a well known pro player here in the UK and he tried 3 of my ODS amp. His view was the #183 was the amp he'd find most useful as a session player but for his own personal taste he loved the 100 Blues master, so again it depends on what your musical 'job' is as to what will work best for you, can you have 'your' sound or do you have to have the sound the producer/artist wants?

I feel being able to build now and tweak can become a curse as you can find yourself concentrating on this rather than the playing, just because you can.

It's an interesting journey though and hopefully the end result is better playing and music.

TBC


M
fred.violleau
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by fred.violleau »

Very interesting reading, thanks for sharing!
Since my last build, I feel the HRM is a bit sterile and thought I would modify it towards a #183.
Your journey brought to my attention other things I should consider in the makeover.

Thanks!

Fred.
Charlie Wilson
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by Charlie Wilson »

Gil, let me know when you are ready to do your lowplate skyliner and I can get you started with some NOS brown RN65D Dales.
CW
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ayan
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by ayan »

Charlie Wilson wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:51 pm Gil, let me know when you are ready to do your lowplate skyliner and I can get you started with some NOS brown RN65D Dales.
CW
Charlie, that's very kind of you, and I very much appreciate the offer. As it were, Tony has already sent me some vintage RN65Ds for the low plate amp. I will be getting all the CFs from Jelle and then, sooner than later, begin work on the low plate. Still have a couple of things to change on the 102... minor stuff, mainly redoing the LNFB loop, so I have a few hours left of work on it. Thanks again, and I look forward to meeting you soon, given we are almost neighbors!

Marcus, totally agreed on tweaking VS playing. I took almost ten years off for a reason... now I've fallen off the wagon..

Fred, I did try the HRM a long time ago. It was a good sounding amp, but too Marshally for my taste, at least my rendition of it. A long time ago, my friend Geek (Jeff Rubin) played mine and I took a couple of videos of him and the amp. Sound quality is not the best but these YoutTube clips will give you and idea of the way it sounded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMx_IdSRcHs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKzPtBTassc

Gil
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Mr. dB
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by Mr. dB »

ayan wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 pm The snob in me, back in the day, would have probably scoffed at what I’m about to say, but how about if most of the “tweaking” and customization Dumble did for his clients was selecting different parts to use in each build? I’ve come to think there’s definitely something to this.
Remember the comment from HAD when he was tweaking Eric Johnson's ODS amp - "You like cheap parts."
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ayan
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by ayan »

Mr. dB wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:14 am
ayan wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:41 pm The snob in me, back in the day, would have probably scoffed at what I’m about to say, but how about if most of the “tweaking” and customization Dumble did for his clients was selecting different parts to use in each build? I’ve come to think there’s definitely something to this.
Remember the comment from HAD when he was tweaking Eric Johnson's ODS amp - "You like cheap parts."
Yes, there is that. :D
talbany
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by talbany »

Choosing certain parts in key spots throughout the preamp is a great way to shape the overall sound of your ODS.
This can be IMO especially true with the "Non_HRM" amps (no OD tone shaping). Draloric,Phier, Roederstien's, Allen Bradley's, NTE's ,CTS all have a sonic footprint and (as Gil puts it)do it in a very musical way and is just another example as to why Dumbles amps are so highly sought after by all the great players. Either way, you gotta give it to the man for the attention to detail (IN THE 70's!!!) in recognizing this and coming up with the magic combination of all these parts putting them in the right spots and building such wonderful sounding musical instrument!

Pure Frickin Genious!!

Quick goop it and keep it a secret. :lol:

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by martin manning »

A lot of work there Gil, and also in writing it up! If you do similar to your low-plate, please get before and after recordings so we can hear exactly what happened.
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by talbany »

martin manning wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:10 pm A lot of work there Gil, and also in writing it up! If you do similar to your low-plate, please get before and after recordings so we can hear exactly what happened.
Didn't we already try that?

Didn't work out very well!

Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by martin manning »

If it’s done in a controlled way, there is no reason it won’t work. If there are real differences, that should be evident in a recording.
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by talbany »

that should be evident in a recording.
I agree and the last one we did was in a controlled environment the changes were evident and obvious everyone heard it and it was what blamed on "Pick Attack" :roll:
Martin I sent you the resistors just try them!
Tony
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by martin manning »

It was not controlled as far as the experiment was concerned. The recording was of good quality, but the trials were pre-identified. Marcus himself said that the only difference between the two as far as he could tell was in his own playing.
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by martin manning »

talbany wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:54 pmI sent you the resistors just try them!
Recall I can’t match the value you sent, I want to do a test where I can switch back and forth with no difference other than the old vs. new Dales.
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Re: Tweaking My 102 Amp: A Massive Resistor Makeover

Post by talbany »

martin manning wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:32 pm
talbany wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2019 12:54 pmI sent you the resistors just try them!
Recall I can’t match the value.
Seriously!
The Dales I sent were 97.5K that's less than 5 % tolerance on a 100k plate resistor. It's negligible!. your not going to be able to hear 2K5 difference on a plate resistor. The reason why I sent them to you is to try and put this resistor debate to rest. Just try them or send em back. If you need more to do a test later let me know and I will send more.
Tony
Last edited by talbany on Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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