Dumble Ripper layout

[rootz]

Sorry, bit of a clickbait title. But, I've sketched something in Visio that could be under the goop of Dumble ODS #189 (apart from the reverb of course).

Some here have build the ripper. Mr. Albany being one of them IIRC. Couple of questions for those who've built the amp. How does it compare to the other ODS'es? Is it really sort of a Marshall in a Dumble suit? What does it offer over the more regular Bluesmasters?

The layout is only for testing purposes. I think I get why the layout of #189 is the way it is, assuming there really is a CF in the OD channel. It would be rather easy to convert to the ripper from a Bluesmaster, even reusing the wires. FWIW, I added a small cap at the input of the OD (trimming of some low end), but that could well be just a wire jumper.

Any input appreciated.

[sluckey]

Those hairy tube sockets are gonna cause issues.

[rccolgan]

Those hairy tube sockets are gonna cause issues.

I thought it was for the "fuzz" part of the circuit!

... I'll see myself out now...

[rootz]

I was going for a more hairy OD though...

[sluckey]

Upon closer inspection, I see the hair is not actually on the sockets. It's on the chassis holes. This is definitely for someone that likes to play on the hairy edge.

[talbany]

Sorry, bit of a clickbait title. But, I've sketched something in Visio that could be under the goop of Dumble ODS #189 (apart from the reverb of course).

Some here have build the ripper. Mr. Albany being one of them IIRC. Couple of questions for those who've built the amp. How does it compare to the other ODS'es? Is it really sort of a Marshall in a Dumble suit? What does it offer over the more regular Bluesmasters?

The layout is only for testing purposes. I think I get why the layout of #189 is the way it is, assuming there really is a CF in the OD channel. It would be rather easy to convert to the ripper from a Bluesmaster, even reusing the wires. FWIW, I added a small cap at the input of the OD (trimming of some low end), but that could well be just a wire jumper.

Any input appreciated.

Rootz
This is the schematic for me carries the most validity as far as the basic topology and values of key components (189 having a Skyliner clean stack) of a Ripper.
One look at this design screams Marshall (JCM 800) with "mega boost" PAB in the on position in OD its basically a JCM 800 clipping geometry (w/CF driving the HRM stack) more so than a Bluesmaster. So to answer your question very Marshall-esque response and breakup characteristics, very different from that of a more symmetrical 4th gen or Stock HRM's. the latter being much smoother and more consistent with the a-typical Dumble ODS sound they are most recognized. So if I were to build another I would start here and follow the layout on the pics C.W gave us

Ripper Version 2 (1).pdf

BTW. You could also set up V2/ CF like this which is consistent with Dumble's "high gain mod"

189 CF.pdf

Very nice work on the layout.

Tony

[10thTx]

If one wished to experiment with perhaps a little fatter and chimey-R OD tone, one could consider a 5879 pentode with a mosfet cathode follower. I have used a 5879 in the the OD channel of a number of amps I've done that were dumblish-inspired. I like the tone.

Just a thought to consider. Not saying this would be "better".

With respect, 10thtx

[rootz]

Thanks for the replies guys.

What would you say Tony, is the ripper worth the build. It is relatively easy converted back to a stock Bluesmaster.

Also, the Bluesmaster preamp with 22n caps in the tone stack seems rather low end heavy. Did you feel the need to trim of some of the low end?

Also (2), I can't find a definitive answer what kind of coupling caps to use. I've seen Bludo's with a mix of what seems Nichicon QXK around the tone stack, what seems like CDE DME in the rest of the amp. Maybe MPP's even. Difficult to tell, can't read the text on most of the caps (apart from the Nichicons). Have you got a more general recommendation?

[talbany]

Also, the Bluesmaster preamp with 22n caps in the tone stack seems rather low end heavy. Did you feel the need to trim of some of the low end?

If your referring to the clean channel? No not really. I thought the clean channel was the best sounding part of the amp and well balanced.
The OD is a different story? I found it to be on the low end heavy side since your driving the HRM stack at a lower source impedance the frequency response will be different so the stack will become more efficient giving you more range on both bass and treble controls, so brighter and more low end` (Just like a Marshall/5f6A)Also CF when pushed tends to generate 2nd order giving you a thicker fuller sound vs a stack that is plate driven. so to answer your question the Ripper will be capable of generating more low-end in OD. This is yet another reason why you want to set the HRM in PAB mode and bypass the clean stack.

Also (2), I can't find a definitive answer what kind of coupling caps to use. I've seen Bludo's with a mix of what seems Nichicon QXK around the tone stack, what seems like CDE DME in the rest of the amp. Maybe MPP's even. Difficult to tell, can't read the text on most of the caps (apart from the Nichicons). Have you got a more general recommendation?

I built mine using the older MPP's this gave me somewhat of a Marshall-ish type sound in OD mode. they are somewhat scooped in mids (which I recommend in this amp) and is a pressed style cap which should help with the low end issue. Anything else would be a matter of taste depending on how aggressive you want the amp by pushing the mids further out front with a Skyliner stack. (I have not tried the Nich's or CDE's?)
As for my opinion?. The clean channel goes mine was not a Skyliner so they are both fairly similar(like a BM) lively responsive versatile and takes pedals fine.
In OD It's a rock machine no doubt about it! fuzzy and aggressive with plenty of low-end.
BTW.The real question i would have going in would be? would I use a Skyliner in this amp?.....i doubt it.

What would you say Tony, is the ripper worth the build. It is relatively easy converted back to a stock Bluesmaster.

Sure if your looking for an amp with a nice clean channel and really aggressive 80's Rock OD w/ spring reverb it's worth it. As far as conversion goes?. Nothing you can't handle
Let me know if I can help further.

Tony

[rootz]

Yeah, I was talking the clean channel being low end heavy.

I was considering Skyliner. It seems #189 is Skyliner, but with mega boost PAB. But as it is pretty easy to experiment, I'll go with Bluesmaster stack first and go from there (if needed). I've yet to build a Skyliner amp that suits me. But the fun thing is that I intend to lift the clean tone stack anyway when in OD. I don't think there is any benefit by keeping the clean stack in when in OD. Which also means that I could even go classic stack as it is just for the clean anyway.

I also see all visible coupling caps in #189 are 715P's. Might be just the PI, but that is impossible to tell due to the goop. IIRC CDE DME caps are somewhat mid scooped as well, but somewhat smooth in the top end. Those suit me well, because I like to keep the bright switch on (with a relatively low value, like 150p though).

Now there are some ideas I had for the low end if it is overpowering in the OD channel. But that is only when needed. If both clean and OD have too much low end I can always lower the cathode bypass cap on v1b for example, or go with a smaller coupling cap after that triode.

I really like how you describe the OD channel. I'm wanting for a more aggressive OD. Not really sure if fuzzy is what I'm looking for though. Was that coming from the low ending the OD? Or is it more like high end fizz? Both can be handled with component values I think, but might have been the MPP's too?

[Charlie Wilson]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbo15gAgcsY
CW

[talbany]

Yeah, I was talking the clean channel being low end heavy.

I was considering Skyliner. It seems #189 is Skyliner, but with mega boost PAB. But as it is pretty easy to experiment, I'll go with Bluesmaster stack first and go from there (if needed). I've yet to build a Skyliner amp that suits me. But the fun thing is that I intend to lift the clean tone stack anyway when in OD. I don't think there is any benefit by keeping the clean stack in when in OD. Which also means that I could even go classic stack as it is just for the clean anyway.

I also see all visible coupling caps in #189 are 715P's. Might be just the PI, but that is impossible to tell due to the goop. IIRC CDE DME caps are somewhat mid scooped as well, but somewhat smooth in the top end. Those suit me well, because I like to keep the bright switch on (with a relatively low value, like 150p though).

Now there are some ideas I had for the low end if it is overpowering in the OD channel. But that is only when needed. If both clean and OD have too much low end I can always lower the cathode bypass cap on v1b for example, or go with a smaller coupling cap after that triode.

I really like how you describe the OD channel. I'm wanting for a more aggressive OD. Not really sure if fuzzy is what I'm looking for though. Was that coming from the low ending the OD? Or is it more like high end fizz? Both can be handled with component values I think, but might have been the MPP's too?

Since your adding reverb both BM and Skyliners tend to increase low end so, you may have to tweak it to keep it from being too boomy after the fact with smaller couplers and yes I think a classic stack w/5 uF on clean is also a good option to consider, all a matter of taste and how much reverb you use?. The MPP's have a smooth top and would also go ceramic in both treble and bright V1b bypass spots. By fuzzy I mean low mids.

BTW..One of the reasons why I never liked Marshalls w/ spring reverb were their reverb reflections were too boomy.
Carltons Ripper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wZLhrrA7og

Good Luck

Tony

[fred.violleau]

Very interesting thread. I really dig Carlton's video, love the way the amp blooms and get into feedback very naturally without being overwhelming. Is the Ripper #189?

One of my favorite tone for Larry is the tour with Steve Lukather and their rendition of "we ended as lovers". I think Larry was using a bludo on that tour? And is it a clone of the Ripper or something else?

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxDDPWjuc7GF ... 7GMCaoIA9U

Always collecting new info for a next build!
Cheers,

Fred.

[Guitarman18]

I would start here and follow the layout on the pics C.W gave us
Ripper Version 2 (1).pdf

BTW. You could also set up V2/ CF like this which is consistent with Dumble's "high gain mod"
189 CF.pdf
Very nice work on the layout.

Tony

Hi Tony,

I hope you are well!

I'm in the process of starting a Ripper build, to add to my collection of ODS topologies ( all of which you have been kind enough to assist with in the past), and I was wondering if you had any insight as to the accuracy of Gary's 'Jack The Ripper' schematic or whether Brandon had disclosed any further information about LC's Ripper, that you might be able to share?

As always, many thanks in advance for any information that you may feel able to divulge.

Best wishes and take care,

Paul.

[rootz]

I, for one, haven’t seen much about Brandons work for LC, other than a pretty extensive list of models he makes. That is, preamps, od circuits, power amps. IIRC he calls the OD of LC the megaplex.

Anyway, be prepared to have a Dumble that does not have the typical Dumble sound. The Apliphonix and gain of AN has a 3 gain stages plus CF of channel. While it sounds rather good, it does not come even close to say Fords typical Dumble sound. The A&G looks like a 100k/820r gain stage into a 100k CF into a standard Matshall tone stack. Only one treble peaker in front of the gain pot and a large snubber (something like 2n looking at the size of the orange drop cap on the anode resistor of V1b.

I think you will need some tweaking to get the Ripper sound good, or more Dumble. But hey, that is the fun part, right.