Rootz built an SSS # 005 but I can't find any sound demos of him on TAG.
I wrote to Rootz asking him for advice, I know he is a very generous guy, but he didn't answer me. I hope he's fine and he's alone on vacation.
I asked him if he can sell me one of the chassis and cards he built for his # SS005 but no answer.
I have not completely discarded the construction of an SSS # 002 yet but it seems to me that it really is too large in size.
I have to thank you again for helping build 2nd Gen. It is really my favorite.
ViperDoc wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:52 am
Purists, I accept your scorn without judgment.
In your opinion, what does the Dumble overdrive circuit do for your Dumble sound that an overdrive pedal in the loop can’t/won’t? Interested in your thoughts.
The only ODS style amp I own is a Fuchs ODS II, and I don’t find myself needing the overdrive. The stock channel is fabulous by itself IMO. I am unaware whether it closely resembles a known Dumble or not. I am going to build a 102, but thought I might pare it down a bit and remove the FET and the OD, as well as the PAB and use external devices to get there as needed. All recommendations/thoughts welcome. Thanks.
In my experience, an ODS type of amp is a very good platform for pedals. Unlike other amps that may be more scooped or have a hardwired bright cap on the volume (e.g., the Reverb/Vibrato channel of a Deluxe Reverb, some Marshalls), the ODS preamp is very pedal friendly. There are a ton of good overdrive pedals out there that will sound great through those amps. Some -- if not most -- times, having to carrying a snake to do the 4-cable pedalboard deal to use time-based effects through the amp's FX loop (which, in my case, means also carrying a small rack with a D-lator clone as well), implies carrying another 20 lbs of stuff, having a more complicated set up and tear down, and amounts to more trouble than it's worth when playing a lower volume gig. To me, at lower volumes, pedals can sound better than the amp's overdrive. However, having said all of that, the amp's natural overdrive will always have a lot more dynamic range than any pedal I've ever tried, like a cranked Plexi will have more dynamic range than an iconic Mesa Boogie "Mark" type of lead tone. If that's something that you appreciate and incorporate into your playing, then pedals may end up being your second choice. At this point in my life, I tend to do the 4-cable thing only when I play larger venues. But, while the older I get the less I care about using the amps as clean pedal platforms, if I were building another amp I would definitely build it with the overdrive, even if I were to only use it occasionally.
ayan wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:43 pm
In my experience, an ODS type of amp is a very good platform for pedals. Unlike other amps that may be more scooped or have a hardwired bright cap on the volume (e.g., the Reverb/Vibrato channel of a Deluxe Reverb, some Marshalls), the ODS preamp is very pedal friendly. There are a ton of good overdrive pedals out there that will sound great through those amps. Some -- if not most -- times, having to carrying a snake to do the 4-cable pedalboard deal to use time-based effects through the amp's FX loop (which, in my case, means also carrying a small rack with a D-lator clone as well), implies carrying another 20 lbs of stuff, having a more complicated set up and tear down, and amounts to more trouble than it's worth when playing a lower volume gig. To me, at lower volumes, pedals can sound better than the amp's overdrive. However, having said all of that, the amp's natural overdrive will always have a lot more dynamic range than any pedal I've ever tried, like a cranked Plexi will have more dynamic range than an iconic Mesa Boogie "Mark" type of lead tone. If that's something that you appreciate and incorporate into your playing, then pedals may end up being your second choice. At this point in my life, I tend to do the 4-cable thing only when I play larger venues. But, while the older I get the less I care about using the amps as clean pedal platforms, if I were building another amp I would definitely build it with the overdrive, even if I were to only use it occasionally.
G.
I appreciate the input. I've decided to do a full up 100W 102 head to start, and perhaps do a "Small Special"-inspired 50W clean-only 102 or 124 in a combo to "maximize the minimism", if you will! Even though I won't likely blast into the onboard OD regularly, it will be a shame to not build it for my first D-type build. I picked up two Kingsley tube OD pedals (Page DS and Maiden BF) to fill the void when needed, though, and I can always test those on the fully-built head as well.
In your opinion, what does the Dumble overdrive circuit do for your Dumble sound that an overdrive pedal in the loop can’t/won’t? Interested in your thoughts.
The best way I would describe it is? with most overdrive/distortion pedals I find that the distortion tends to want to surround/blanket the note, whereby losing some clarity or "Chirp" (as some might put it ) With the tube overdrive cascading gain stage method the note surrounds the distortion. The result is a cleaner purer fundamental. There is also the organic-dynamic, quality about using tube distortion you can better control the amount of distortion by using either the volume controls or attack with right hand. also the lower frequency strings seem to distort differently than the upper G,B.E unwound strings do. Then there is a overall fatter, punchier, sound as well as a more natural tube compression going on. (some pedals get too compressed)
This has a rather large impact on how I play too as I find myself paying closer attention to every note and forces me not to get sloppy (notice I said forces )
in order to get the OD dialed into what I consider the sweet spot the amp needs to be at a certain volume level to get everything balanced, this requires a good size room which we all know is not always available so out comes the board. i am not against using pedals been doing that for 40 years, however if i can get into a large enough room the pedalboard stays in the car.Last thing? I've built just about every model ODS and they all make for good sounding pedal platforms, simply a matter of taste
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Great info, guys. So here's a somewhat non-related question, although tone related. I've decided to stick with Heyboer for my Twin iron, and the best I can find is a BF Twin PT with a 120VAC primary and a 320-0-320 secondary. If that's a nominal, loaded secondary rating, I thought I could at best expect a 320(1.4) = 448 VDC on the plates with diode rectification. I thought I saw between 440 and 465 listed on various schematics using twin iron (the vintage BF Twin Reverb schematic shows a 340-0-340 secondary on the F3nder PT, but I'm not sure if that's loaded or not). The point is to ask how critical the power tube anode voltage is to the overdrive? I have been told that hitting the first preamp tube plate voltage is vital to the 102 et al tone. The only other thing I thought of is perhaps, if the plate voltage was too low on the 6L6, I could intentionally pull two tubes, unload the PT a bit and squeak out a bit higher B+ that way.
320-0-320 will give approximately 440v on B+
345-0-345 will give approximately 465v on B+
The first drop resistor is mostly 2k2 with the 320-0-320
With the 345-0-345 the first drop resistor is around 3k3.
The voltages on the first preamp tube will be around the same if you keep this in mind.
Voltages for high plates and low plates (#124)will differ off course and the use of EL34 vs 6L6GC also due to the amount of current at 60% idle bias.
The idle voltage we are all fixated on is a part-load case, so you will just have to see where you end up with that PT. The first dropping resistor (showing 3k in the layout) can be 1k to 3k3, which will change the V1 plate voltage by 8-9 V. IMO 190V +/- 10V with nominal line voltage is good.
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