fenderbender4 wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:41 am
This may have been answered elsewhere but I love the tone Santana has gotten on the tracks “Game of Love” (Michelle Branch version) and “Feeling You” (coincidentally also Michelle Branch Vox). To me the lead tone doesn’t have the “grit”raggedness” to it. Almost like a compressor is in it but the dynamics are there and the pick attack sounds like the amp is on the verge of blowing up. Does anyone know what exactly the circuit is that Santana’s amps are? Also, is that type of lead tone inherent to the ODR circuits, or just Santana’s? I’m not a builder but does anyone make a good clone of it possibly? Never have heard an amp sound like what Santana’s tone is like.
To clarify: The studio version of The Game of Love with Michelle Branch was recorded with Carlos’ Mark I Boogie, not the Dumble. The live versions on TV were all Dumble. The alternate Tina Turner studio version of this same tune, on the other hand, is all Dumble through his 4x12 setup. The Boogie is bright and sqwaky. The Dumble is deep and throaty. Listen to the two, and you’ll hear all that pillowy low mid goodness coming through on the Turner version.
biggysteve wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:45 am
Brandon from Bludotone and the amp’s previous owner have confirmed in separate threads and forums over the years that Carlos’ #57 is a rebuilt 1977 ODR, similar to #60 in that it sat around Dumble’s shop as a prototype platform for tweaks and mods, up until the early 90’s. It has a Skyliner tone stack, voiced somewhat similar to Robben Ford’s amp and (surprise) a PRE-OD reverb circuit, which likely adds to the amp’s unique character in the lead channel. The amp also has separate send controls for the reverb circuit in each channel. Perhaps a deliberate decision so you can dial down the effect of overdriven reverb tone when channel switching? Bonus: Look closely and you’ll see an Electro Harmonix Holy Grail reverb sitting on top of Carlos’ head on that live Game of Love clip lol! Additionally: that Marshall cab was loaded with Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s in an X pattern.
His second main ODR amp was a donor amp built in the 90’s (Serial number 19x). Dumble rebuilt it sometime in the mid-2000’s to voice it as close as possible to #57. Brandon has been inside both of these.
Within the last few days, ODR #60 has surprisingly appeared on Santana’s stage rig sitting on top of his 4x12. I guess he’s still trying to collect the whole set!
A good example of these amps with the overdriven reverb in play is in this clip, where Carlos dubbed lead fills in the studio over this live performance. Almost a chorus-y effect on the tone.
Hi BiggySteve,
Thank you for posting and confirming my suspicions all along that Santana's #57 Overdrive Reverb had a Pre Overdrive Reverb circuit!
Similar to how the reverb was added in the 70's #13 Overdrive Reverb. I had a hunch that it was like that from looking at different gut pics of several Overdrive Reverbs and from listening to the live recordings of Game of Love.
Thanks
Two Rocks Bloomfield Drive has a similar circuit as the #57 in that it takes the reverb from the V1b to the V2a tube with the 68K - 56K resistor. The JM amp does the same as well. The #13 also loads the reverb in a similar way. Dumbles Overdrive Reverb #08X also loads its reverb in a similar way. The Steel String Singer #002 also load the reverb this way.
So that is 4 Dumble amps that we know of that load the reverb this way.
He must of been very found of this design!
biggysteve wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2023 4:45 am
Brandon from Bludotone and the amp’s previous owner have confirmed in separate threads and forums over the years that Carlos’ #57 is a rebuilt 1977 ODR, similar to #60 in that it sat around Dumble’s shop as a prototype platform for tweaks and mods, up until the early 90’s. It has a Skyliner tone stack, voiced somewhat similar to Robben Ford’s amp and (surprise) a PRE-OD reverb circuit, which likely adds to the amp’s unique character in the lead channel. The amp also has separate send controls for the reverb circuit in each channel. Perhaps a deliberate decision so you can dial down the effect of overdriven reverb tone when channel switching? Bonus: Look closely and you’ll see an Electro Harmonix Holy Grail reverb sitting on top of Carlos’ head on that live Game of Love clip lol! Additionally: that Marshall cab was loaded with Greenbacks and Vintage 30’s in an X pattern.
His second main ODR amp was a donor amp built in the 90’s (Serial number 19x). Dumble rebuilt it sometime in the mid-2000’s to voice it as close as possible to #57. Brandon has been inside both of these.
Within the last few days, ODR #60 has surprisingly appeared on Santana’s stage rig sitting on top of his 4x12. I guess he’s still trying to collect the whole set!
A good example of these amps with the overdriven reverb in play is in this clip, where Carlos dubbed lead fills in the studio over this live performance. Almost a chorus-y effect on the tone.
fenderbender4 wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:41 am
This may have been answered elsewhere but I love the tone Santana has gotten on the tracks “Game of Love” (Michelle Branch version) and “Feeling You” (coincidentally also Michelle Branch Vox). To me the lead tone doesn’t have the “grit”raggedness” to it. Almost like a compressor is in it but the dynamics are there and the pick attack sounds like the amp is on the verge of blowing up. Does anyone know what exactly the circuit is that Santana’s amps are? Also, is that type of lead tone inherent to the ODR circuits, or just Santana’s? I’m not a builder but does anyone make a good clone of it possibly? Never have heard an amp sound like what Santana’s tone is like.
During the "Feeling You" video he is playing his 2nd Overdrive Reverb amp ( he owns 2 of them). I attached a pic of it below. Stop the video below at 0:26 sec and you will see the amp behind him with the full size knob at the far right. Weather this is the amp that made it to the final recording of this video is another question but you can see it's turned on at least.
I'm Feeling You was recorded with the ODR that Dumble later rebuild for him (Serial Number 19x). Carlos acquired that amp sometime in 2003, and it sounds radically different from #57, based on live clips from that time period (late 2003 - 2005).
Also to consider: in the early-mid 2000's, Carlos had Tone Tubby's loaded up in his Brown 4x12's, and eventually, hemp-coned Vintage 30's in his Marshall cabs. Those speakers have a really unique, round but detailed top-end character and can handle a ass-ton of bass like nothing else out there.
fenderbender4 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 2:17 am
Was that “Feeling You” Dumble, originally more of a 70s voicing (before HAD updated it).?
The "Feeling You" amp was originally a low plate (100K) resistors and the 100K slope resistor, I am not sure if that was changed, probably not. One thing we know is that it had the reverb taken much the same way the JM amps do and also similar to how the SSS #002 takes its reverb. Two Rock's Bloomfield Drive( which is also a Low plate amp with a Classic tone stack) also takes its reverb in a similar way. This has an impact on the clean signal. So just going by a 70s tone would not get you there, you need to run the reverb in a similar way.
