am I ready to build a dumble style amp?

[wsaraceni]

I understand one can get overwhelmed by the complexity of an ODS. But trust me when I say that the different ODS amps are more or less variants of one another. That is where I and many other members (I admit I take some liberty here) can help you: make the variant you want.

So, let’s assume you have a (verified) small special schematic. That is some sort of clean only ODS. No relays, no OD stage. Let’s say you really like the Bluesmaster cleans (just as an example). Then I can help adjusting values in the layout to Bluesmaster values. It’s not difficult once you understand the basics of an amp and/or an ODS. You’ll get to understand more along the way.

On a side note: there already is something like a clean only Bluesmaster. It’s called the Ultraphonix mod for a Bandmaster. There are plenty of video clips of either Bluesmaster clean or a Dumble modden Bandmaster. The modded Bassmans are something different though.

I must also note that IMHO ampgarage is one off the best and most helpful forums I’ve ever had the pleasure off visiting and being on.

thanks. ill definitely be looking into clean clips. I think thats where ill start. id ultimately like to pick a ODS clean channel that taxes pedals the best and has the best sound on its own (or maybe with a little added reverb in the loop.

im also thinking the regular ODS chassis is the way to go and I can just not use some of the holes on the front or back and cover with custom faceplates. plus it gives me room to add or take away features as desired.

is this the sound of the ultraphonix blues master (even if its in a Marshall?) because this sounds good to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZJcXrciKug

im still looking to find some blues master clips

[ijedouglas]

Take a look at the AN wonderland https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29774. It's pretty much the clean side of a low-plate classic with reverb. I've built this and it's a really good sounding amp. Taylor from AN sells the chassis with a board set, check the For Sale section.

[Stephen1966]

What is the exact sound you are looking for?

Be precise.

I actually haven't thought about that. I guess im looking for a great clean pedal platform amp that isnt something I could just go and buy. I really love the two rock Mayer amp and the current traditional clean but I could just buy that, I dont need to build it, I'd love a clean tone on the fuller side that isnt muddy.

but honestly, I just want to build another amp. and something single channel that isnt like a champ or deluxe, that I feel comfortable doing. to be honest, ive heard plenty of great dumble clean tones, so thats why I thought the small special would work. but now that I am researching I have so many questions for myself. like why did it go with Treble /bass instead of TMB? how hard would it be to add fx loop (passive or active)? do I want to go 50 or 100 watts? do I follow the simplified layout here or just build an actual clean side only of an ODS with the full TMB, 3 switches, FX loop,. etc. lots of things I need to decide.

There's a lot to unpack here but I will just deal with the obvious. First off, the sound you are looking for is perhaps the most important question you can ask, often enough, the answer isn't always clear at first but rather evolves and develops as you become familiar with the possibilities. One thing many players comment on however, when they have the option of 50W/100W switching is that they enjoy the headroom of 100W and rarely use 50W - there's barely any difference in volume and there are a lot of really good 50W amps out there, but 100W does increase your headroom for clean playing especially when using pedals.

The kind of pedals you use will have a bearing, if they are time based though, the active effects loop is a better way to go. Dumbles with a good clean tone sound are great (up to and including the truly awesome) with all kinds of pedals on the front end. The OD channel, not so much, but again, what pedals are you talking about. Some work with OD, others not so well. How hard is it to add an active FX? There's really only one to find out.

Quite a few good suggestions have now been shared here. You only need to figure out what you are looking for the and the rest will come as a matter of necessity.

I get it, you don't feel very comfortable with the more complex elements of amp design, I think we've all been there. The guys here are a great crew and if you ask the right questions, you will get the right answers. Otherwise, and in addition, you simply have to knuckle down and learn stuff - it should go without saying the greater the challenge, the greater the reward when it all comes together.

[wsaraceni]

What is the exact sound you are looking for?

Be precise.

I actually haven't thought about that. I guess im looking for a great clean pedal platform amp that isnt something I could just go and buy. I really love the two rock Mayer amp and the current traditional clean but I could just buy that, I dont need to build it, I'd love a clean tone on the fuller side that isnt muddy.

but honestly, I just want to build another amp. and something single channel that isnt like a champ or deluxe, that I feel comfortable doing. to be honest, ive heard plenty of great dumble clean tones, so thats why I thought the small special would work. but now that I am researching I have so many questions for myself. like why did it go with Treble /bass instead of TMB? how hard would it be to add fx loop (passive or active)? do I want to go 50 or 100 watts? do I follow the simplified layout here or just build an actual clean side only of an ODS with the full TMB, 3 switches, FX loop,. etc. lots of things I need to decide.

There's a lot to unpack here but I will just deal with the obvious. First off, the sound you are looking for is perhaps the most important question you can ask, often enough, the answer isn't always clear at first but rather evolves and develops as you become familiar with the possibilities. One thing many players comment on however, when they have the option of 50W/100W switching is that they enjoy the headroom of 100W and rarely use 50W - there's barely any difference in volume and there are a lot of really good 50W amps out there, but 100W does increase your headroom for clean playing especially when using pedals.

The kind of pedals you use will have a bearing, if they are time based though, the active effects loop is a better way to go. Dumbles with a good clean tone sound are great (up to and including the truly awesome) with all kinds of pedals on the front end. The OD channel, not so much, but again, what pedals are you talking about. Some work with OD, others not so well. How hard is it to add an active FX? There's really only one to find out.

Quite a few good suggestions have now been shared here. You only need to figure out what you are looking for the and the rest will come as a matter of necessity.

I get it, you don't feel very comfortable with the more complex elements of amp design, I think we've all been there. The guys here are a great crew and if you ask the right questions, you will get the right answers. Otherwise, and in addition, you simply have to knuckle down and learn stuff - it should go without saying the greater the challenge, the greater the reward when it all comes together.

im a home player and generally dont see much difference between 100w and 50w amps. that being said, I never had a clean pedal platform. my current #1 amp I plug into most of the time is a komet 60 into a power station with the volant in the loop. I think if I built a clean amp, id have a reverb pedal I n the loop and thats about it.

in front of the amp I just have a simple pedalboard. mostly overdrives and boosts. id like something to where those would be more useful than into my komet which with the power station has plenty of gain already.

it's not so much that I dont want to build the whole overdrive section with relays and all that. with the layouts and schematics and photos im sure I could get close with a little help. it's just I rarely hear a dumble "lead tone" I like. im not really into the robben ford thing. the closest lead tone to a Dumble ODS that ive heardthat impressed me was the two rock ts1 and to be honest, I have no clue if thats even remotely close to a d-clone.

examples of that are
here
https://www.instagram.com/p/CU8Cb44gcOW/
and here
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSYUTq-gtQL/

but those clips wouldnt jump out as "thats a dumble" in my limited experience.

but back to the question at hand. I wish I knew more about amp design and dumble history to answer what I am looking for. I was kinda looking at this project as an intro to that. like step 1. build a clean channel only ODS. step 2. build a SSS which is what I really want.

[Stephen1966]

step 1. build a clean channel only ODS. step 2. build a SSS which is what I really want.

There you go! It's a start. Historically, I'm not sure Dumble's amps were meant as pedal platforms. What they offer is more all encompassing - the kind of amp that doesn't require any pedal. They are solidly designed though and better than almost anything off the shelf, from yesterday, or today.

This is as much about educating your ear as it is about understanding the complexity of a sophisticated beast such as an ODS. There's really nothing stopping you going straight to a SSS if you know one end of the iron from the other, just a few more steps in the process. If you want something quick and dirty though, just go for the 124 low-plate Skyline with all its well-documented build notes and you won't go wrong. It's when you try to change the designs that your maths skills start to get tested and things start to get complicated. It might seem counter-intuitive, but by trying to make things simpler for yourself, you might actually be making things more complicated.

[wsaraceni]

but by trying to make things simpler for yourself, you might actually be making things more complicated.

I definitely get that. I mean looking at this layout https://ceriatone.com/overtone-hrm-bluesmaster-100/
and this one https://ampgarage.com/forum/download/fi ... &mode=view


I can see where im almost better off building the whole amp. I mean the overdrive section is wiring up one more tube, 2 pots, and figuring out what all the relays do.

for example. looking at the ceriatone layout (which is a little easier to follow) I can see that the clean channel when following the schematic goes to Lead "U" on the master. I can follow that. But then I get lost from there, to the relays, to the fx send and return until I get back to "N" which I believe is the phase inverter (power amp) input.


then you are right. I have the math part. if B+4 is feeding nothing, how does that change things. id need some serious help understanding how the power supply works if removing a tube wasnt as simple as just pretending it doesnt exist.


but the truth is. I only want the clean channel. so im torn. well. time for more reading.


also as far as dumble amps not being designed as a pedal platform. I got that. but they sound better than any other amp ive heard as a pedal platform.

[wsaraceni]

duplicate post

[Stephen1966]

Figuring stuff out, that's where we can help - you don't need to worry about that.

Honestly, I wouldn't waste any time on this, if it's the SSS you really want, I mean really, sincerely, no need to be torn, just do it. Once you build an amp like that, questions like what happens if you omit a gain stage will be answered effortlessly. Questions like how to put an amp like that together will be answered in due course. You only need to be thoughtful and specific as you can be when you go asking questions.

The sound? Truly awesome, yeah? The thing you can't really appreciate until you are in the room is the amount of high end presence these amps project. Real presence, you can watch as many YT videos as you like but you aren't going to get the sheer heft one of these amps brings to the stage. Keep listening to clips though, once you can identify the sound you're searching for, it's only a matter of engineering to find the answer to those requirements. Many here, will have already figured out how you can do it.

[award70]

Are you ready to build a Dumble style amp? I don’t know. No one knows. What you are definitely ready to do is talk about it for weeks.

[Stephen1966]

Are you ready to build a Dumble style amp? I don’t know. No one knows. What you are definitely ready to do is talk about it for weeks.

Yeah! Your tone stinks. How about showing a little tolerance and sharing some constructive criticism here? This guy's on a journey and at least he is willing to share which is more than can be said for you, with your with your 3 posts.

[martin manning]

Maybe that comment should have been followed by a wink? ;^)

... if it's the SSS you really want, I mean really, sincerely, no need to be torn, just do it.

Seconded.

[martin manning]

...looking at the ceriatone layout (which is a little easier to follow) I can see that the clean channel when following the schematic goes to Lead "U" on the master. I can follow that. But then I get lost from there, to the relays, to the fx send and return until I get back to "N" which I believe is the phase inverter (power amp) input. ...

Ceriatone layouts are among the worst for using letters and not showing wire routing, which is the main purpose of a layout drawing. I suggest looking at the schematic for understanding how things work. Much easier.

[jazzbass]

...looking at the ceriatone layout (which is a little easier to follow) I can see that the clean channel when following the schematic goes to Lead "U" on the master. I can follow that. But then I get lost from there, to the relays, to the fx send and return until I get back to "N" which I believe is the phase inverter (power amp) input. ...

Ceriatone layouts are among the worst for using letters and not showing wire routing, which is the main purpose of a layout drawing. I suggest looking at the schematic for understanding how things work. Much easier.

Hi wsaraceni, hi everybody,

I have little to add to what friends on TAG much better than me have already suggested to you, what I can assure you is that this is a place full of very capable good people.

I started just over ten years ago, I have a technical but not specific culture, I play (I played a lot until last year) and I have a passion for electronics, especially the one involving music.

I assure you that a lifetime is not enough to understand it all but this is precisely the beauty of it, it is a continuous challenge to one's limits. I wouldn't have grown up without the help of the friends of this blog, of course, but help my curiosity, stubbornness and.....when I decide to build an amp, I don't like to lose.

I started building old Fender models because the web is full of their schematics. I then heard the sound of Robben Ford which introduced me to the Dumble world, and I assure you that I'm beginning to understand it just a little now that I've built a dozen of them.

Choosing what to build is the hardest thing, I started with a #124 ODS by buying a kit and assembling it following its layout and schematics. Then I build more amps, and being a Fenderist who loves clean I built some JM/Wonderlands.

The demos you find in the dedicated TAG session or on Youtube are a track but to really appreciate the Dumble quality you have to hear them in person.

As everyone has suggested, start with a well-documented amp and when problems arise, describe them by following the discussion on TAG, you will surely find true enthusiasts (very, very knowledgeable) who will try to help you as they did for me, without jealousy and with true generosity.

A hug, Franco

[wsaraceni]

...looking at the ceriatone layout (which is a little easier to follow) I can see that the clean channel when following the schematic goes to Lead "U" on the master. I can follow that. But then I get lost from there, to the relays, to the fx send and return until I get back to "N" which I believe is the phase inverter (power amp) input. ...

Ceriatone layouts are among the worst for using letters and not showing wire routing, which is the main purpose of a layout drawing. I suggest looking at the schematic for understanding how things work. Much easier.

Hi wsaraceni, hi everybody,

I have little to add to what friends on TAG much better than me have already suggested to you, what I can assure you is that this is a place full of very capable good people.

I started just over ten years ago, I have a technical but not specific culture, I play (I played a lot until last year) and I have a passion for electronics, especially the one involving music.

I assure you that a lifetime is not enough to understand it all but this is precisely the beauty of it, it is a continuous challenge to one's limits. I wouldn't have grown up without the help of the friends of this blog, of course, but help my curiosity, stubbornness and.....when I decide to build an amp, I don't like to lose.

I started building old Fender models because the web is full of their schematics. I then heard the sound of Robben Ford which introduced me to the Dumble world, and I assure you that I'm beginning to understand it just a little now that I've built a dozen of them.

Choosing what to build is the hardest thing, I started with a #124 ODS by buying a kit and assembling it following its layout and schematics. Then I build more amps, and being a Fenderist who loves clean I built some JM/Wonderlands.

The demos you find in the dedicated TAG session or on Youtube are a track but to really appreciate the Dumble quality you have to hear them in person.

As everyone has suggested, start with a well-documented amp and when problems arise, describe them by following the discussion on TAG, you will surely find true enthusiasts (very, very knowledgeable) who will try to help you as they did for me, without jealousy and with true generosity.

A hug, Franco

Thanks for the advice.

Funny thing, I’ve actually played through a real dumble. At least if my memory serves me correctly. I just don’t remember anything about it as it was so long ago and I had no clue what it really was. I wish I could remember. I’m sure other people here played through it at a get together in NJ.

[wsaraceni]

back.

so thanks to this thread I started researching all the dumble styles and clones and originals and came across this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKGGe-Qyt_Q

that sounds exactly like what I want. so thats why im going to research to build.