Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

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Abstract
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Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by Abstract »

Ummm....S&M?

What is this amp? Is it a SSS?

http://www.ceriatone.com/productSubPage ... oneS&M.htm
nickm57
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by nickm57 »

no , It's a ODS with nik's values for components.
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Structo
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by Structo »

Yes the blue shaded values have been changed.
But I believe that this has become his standard layout according to a few people on the Ceriatone forum.
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
massygt6
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by massygt6 »

This the layout of the first batch of Overtones, very bright amps...they're a good match with dark voiced guitars and cabinets, but the revised layout is more musical and toneful, sounds great also with telecasters and p90s.
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UltraHookedOnPhonix
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by UltraHookedOnPhonix »

As far as I know, no real-deal non-HRM ever had HRM-derived 180K & 120K plates with their appropriate cathode resistors and caps.
Also, the 150K pre OD trimmer and 250K Level pot are not "standard issue" although #124 had the 250K Level pot but that was a 100K plate amp.
Regardless of historical accuracy though, some might like Nik's mods.

On another issue, the overdrive relay on ALL ceriatones are wired backwards (see picture) and the main reservoir/filter caps are placed after the standby not before the standby like a real Dumble. Also, Ceriatone owners should take note of where the footswitch jack grounds, at the vReg ground not at the center pin of the FTSW jack. What's more is that the three 22uF, 450V filter caps do not ground at the PT, they should ground at a lug just in front of the standby switch. Real 80's non-HRM amps had a can cap that grounded where the preamp grounds but you can do what the 70's amps did and ground all three at the standby switch.
Small details but, "when in Dumbleland do as the Dumbleonians do". :lol:

[IMG:618:1024]http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb17 ... Relays.jpg[/img]
fullerplast
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by fullerplast »

massygt6 wrote:This the layout of the first batch of Overtones, very bright amps...they're a good match with dark voiced guitars and cabinets, but the revised layout is more musical and toneful, sounds great also with telecasters and p90s.
It's kinda subjective....I have one of the early batch, thought it sounded very good, but in the interest of the "holier grail" put all the suggested mods in. IMHO, it made the amp too bottom heavy and took off the sparkle on the top. Sounded pretty nice at home, but on band gigs the bottom competed with the bass and the amp didn't cut in the mix as well. Had to take the mods out and return it to stock.

Personally, I think Nik had it right the first time.....whether or not it was close enough to any particular Dumble.
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Structo
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by Structo »

I'm not arguing about various iterations of the Dumble ODS circuit but I wonder if the same criticism is leveled at the other amp makers such as Fuchs, Two Rock, Carol-Ann, etc.

Of course they don't publish their layouts or schematics.

It's easy to criticize the lone kid on the block when others may have even more bizarre variations to the original circuits.

I don't think Nik has ever said that his amp was a replica of an actual ODS. It is an approximation with some values chosen for a desired effect.

My mantra is, if it sounds good play it. If it doesn't, change something. :wink:
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
nickm57
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by nickm57 »

As far as I know, no real-deal non-HRM ever had HRM-derived 180K & 120K plates with their appropriate cathode resistors and caps.
Also, the 150K pre OD trimmer and 250K Level pot are not "standard issue" although #124 had the 250K Level pot but that was a 100K plate amp.
What would be the result of these changes sonically in the amp?
Also do 50 watters require different tweaks to the 100watt ?

Nick
fullerplast
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by fullerplast »

Structo wrote:I'm not arguing about various iterations of the Dumble ODS circuit but I wonder if the same criticism is leveled at the other amp makers such as Fuchs, Two Rock, Carol-Ann, etc.

Of course they don't publish their layouts or schematics.

It's easy to criticize the lone kid on the block when others may have even more bizarre variations to the original circuits.

I don't think Nik has ever said that his amp was a replica of an actual ODS. It is an approximation with some values chosen for a desired effect.

My mantra is, if it sounds good play it. If it doesn't, change something. :wink:
It certainly is an interesting observation.....the only ones that leave themselves open to circuit critique are the ones with an open book; Brown Note and Ceriatone. Most others don't even want photos of their amps taken, let alone schematics, yet have no trouble making Dumble's work public. Like you, I also suspect you would certainly find some interesting "anomolies" in other builders amps if the circuits were analyzed, so yeah, you make a good point.

And yes, as I found out the hard way with the well intended mod suggestions, if it already sounds good.... don't mess with success. Success is defined by ear, not historical circuit replication.
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novosibir
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by novosibir »

Abstract wrote:Ummm....S&M?

What is this amp?
And I thought, that's maybe a Sado/Maso version of this amp :roll:

Larry
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dogears
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by dogears »

With all due respect, my inbox was/is flooded (yes flooded) with people asking for my help with the older Ceriatone circuit you preferred. One man's gold is another man's crap. I have spent many hours helping those people, pro bono. They all have greatly preferred the tweaks. Bar none. Gregor's amp has those tweaks and he thinks it sounds good as well. The only people I have had contact with regarding mods, hated or were not happy with the amp and were going to get rid of it if the mods did not fix the OD tone. Hardly well intentioned mods messing with "success". Is it possible your particular OTS had just the right variation of tolerences and tranny characteristics and was the lucky accident that just sounded superb the way it was?

In addition, Brownnote and Ceriatone would not have a basis to build their iterations without the willingness of the others you mention sharing the knowledge. That is concrete fact.

As for anomalies in the other companies amp, that is very true. Because using Bludo as an example, he has been in so many Dumbles, each Bludo is totally unique with its own values chosen to accomplish a goal. Similar to what Dumble did. Difference between that and the original OTS values is that the OTS values are way different than anything ever documented in a Dumble. All well and good unless you want Dumble tone.

fullerplast wrote:
Structo wrote:I'm not arguing about various iterations of the Dumble ODS circuit but I wonder if the same criticism is leveled at the other amp makers such as Fuchs, Two Rock, Carol-Ann, etc.

Of course they don't publish their layouts or schematics.

It's easy to criticize the lone kid on the block when others may have even more bizarre variations to the original circuits.

I don't think Nik has ever said that his amp was a replica of an actual ODS. It is an approximation with some values chosen for a desired effect.

My mantra is, if it sounds good play it. If it doesn't, change something. :wink:
It certainly is an interesting observation.....the only ones that leave themselves open to circuit critique are the ones with an open book; Brown Note and Ceriatone. Most others don't even want photos of their amps taken, let alone schematics, yet have no trouble making Dumble's work public. Like you, I also suspect you would certainly find some interesting "anomolies" in other builders amps if the circuits were analyzed, so yeah, you make a good point.

And yes, as I found out the hard way with the well intended mod suggestions, if it already sounds good.... don't mess with success. Success is defined by ear, not historical circuit replication.
fullerplast
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by fullerplast »

Scott, I know your mods are well intended. My point is that like most things dealing with tone, not one size fits all. You only have to listen to Marin's and spm's clips to hear the results of the original implementation. (I remember when Zucker started with the mods....he had not even adjusted the trim pot before getting into it. After the mods, he only owned the amp for another few weeks....so it was not his holy grail of tone either.)

Nik would not have offered the original again if not for requests asking for it, so there are clearly people that prefer the tone of the original implemenatation besides myself. "Success" is only relative to the person using the amp and in no way undermines your preferences or efforts. In my case, since I tried both versions, it was indeed messing with success. 8) YMMV, of course.

dogears wrote:With all due respect, my inbox was/is flooded (yes flooded) with people asking for my help with the older Ceriatone circuit you preferred. One man's gold is another man's crap. I have spent many hours helping those people, pro bono. They all have greatly preferred the tweaks. Bar none. Gregor's amp has those tweaks and he thinks it sounds good as well. The only people I have had contact with regarding mods, hated or were not happy with the amp and were going to get rid of it if the mods did not fix the OD tone. Hardly well intentioned mods messing with "success". Is it possible your particular OTS had just the right variation of tolerences and tranny characteristics and was the lucky accident that just sounded superb the way it was?

fullerplast wrote:
Structo wrote:I'm not arguing about various iterations of the Dumble ODS circuit but I wonder if the same criticism is leveled at the other amp makers such as Fuchs, Two Rock, Carol-Ann, etc.

Of course they don't publish their layouts or schematics.

It's easy to criticize the lone kid on the block when others may have even more bizarre variations to the original circuits.

I don't think Nik has ever said that his amp was a replica of an actual ODS. It is an approximation with some values chosen for a desired effect.

My mantra is, if it sounds good play it. If it doesn't, change something. :wink:
It certainly is an interesting observation.....the only ones that leave themselves open to circuit critique are the ones with an open book; Brown Note and Ceriatone. Most others don't even want photos of their amps taken, let alone schematics, yet have no trouble making Dumble's work public. Like you, I also suspect you would certainly find some interesting "anomolies" in other builders amps if the circuits were analyzed, so yeah, you make a good point.

And yes, as I found out the hard way with the well intended mod suggestions, if it already sounds good.... don't mess with success. Success is defined by ear, not historical circuit replication.
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Bob-I
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by Bob-I »

dogears wrote:I have spent many hours helping those people, pro bono.
I'll go on record here and now. Without Scott's help my amps would not be sounding the way they do today. Many times Scott initiated the calls as well. Hell of a guy, tons of knowledge and willing to share with everyone.

Thx Scott.
Because using Bludo as an example, he has been in so many Dumbles, each Bludo is totally unique with its own values chosen to accomplish a goal. Similar to what Dumble did.
Let's just hope Brandon stays the nice guy he is, and doesn't turn ONTO HAD :wink:
dogears
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by dogears »

Thanks guys!

And Mark, we're good. Glad you dig the amp! That is what it is all about! Hope we get together soon.
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ayan
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Re: Ceriatone Overtone S&M Special

Post by ayan »

dogears wrote:ccident that just sounded superb the way it was?

In addition, Brownnote and Ceriatone would not have a basis to build their iterations without the willingness of the others you mention sharing the knowledge. That is concrete fact.
Hi Scott,

Others mentioned in this thread being Fuchs and Two Rock, is there a post that got deleted that I fail to see? Every single one here got stuff from someone else and in the end, as I always say, it all stems from Dumble himself. Let's please keep it real, bro.

Gil
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