Steel String Singer Layout?

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stevlech
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by stevlech »

It does seem like the trend is swinging back to 100 watt amps and attenuators. It doesn't make sense to me. Then again, I think winding up a 12 watt amp to 7 is loud. :?
CHIP
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by CHIP »

Yeah crank em up, and then when your 54 years old like me, everyone around you gets annoyed at you for always saying "What did you say?"

Still it ain't no fun gigging unless you can keep up with the drummer. :lol:
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AtomCap
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:)

Post by AtomCap »

Ultimately I'm after the clean headroom, having 100 or 150 watts gives lots of clean useable headroom without creating amp distortion/breakup from tubes being pushed, I figured a 100 watt SSS or 150 watt would be the route to go, especially since my favorite drive tones come from pedals.
thyx
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re

Post by thyx »

boldaslove6789 wrote:The Two-Rock Custom Clean is an exact copy of a SSS, its $6,000 new. The guy on Youtube had a Custom Clean with NOS parts, a 100w, and voiced like John Mayers silver panel SSS (The amp lived in Japan before John Mayer bought it).
So it's a clone of John Mayers amp?

I know Brandon does an early 100-watt version, an SRV version or an Eric Johnson version depending upon your choice. His are EXACT, part-for-part clones...down to the shielded wiring used. I'm not sure the Two-Rocks are exact.
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by Roe »

I understand the attaction of bigger amps, prefering them myself due to headroom, dynamics, bandwidth, response, bass, punch etc.

I want to build a SSS myself, the only info I need is what kind of OT to use and how to wire the filter
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boldaslove6789
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Re: re

Post by boldaslove6789 »

thyx wrote:
boldaslove6789 wrote:The Two-Rock Custom Clean is an exact copy of a SSS, its $6,000 new. The guy on Youtube had a Custom Clean with NOS parts, a 100w, and voiced like John Mayers silver panel SSS (The amp lived in Japan before John Mayer bought it).
So it's a clone of John Mayers amp?

I know Brandon does an early 100-watt version, an SRV version or an Eric Johnson version depending upon your choice. His are EXACT, part-for-part clones...down to the shielded wiring used. I'm not sure the Two-Rocks are exact.

Brandon has seen gut shot of John Mayers amp too. Johns SSS belonged to a Dumble Collector in Japan and Brandon got detailed pics of it. To my knowledge He can do just about any of the famous versions.

Yes the guy on You-Tube, his amp is chock filled with NOS parts too afaik.
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M Fowler
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by M Fowler »

If you get your gain, distortion or other tones with pedals then use a bass amp.

When I was younger in early 1970 I used bass amps for their clean headroom pushing a three 12 inch cabinet until about 1980.

I used Electro-Harmonix distortion pedals, the only thing available to me at the time and by mail order only. No pedals in the music stores in my area at that time period. Foxx had a pedal out as well.
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by backpack »

:? I may be wrong but wasnt that what srv sss was. A bass amp with a guitar preamp. Why not just throw a dumble preamp in front of a bass amp. It wont be a dumble but it should be pretty sweet. There are alot of 150- 200 watters out there for cheap you could rewire easily. Also alot of these poeple you are talking to are BIG name amp builders. Either buy an amp from one of these builders or rent an original since they are available for rent. You can foot the bill and enlighten us all if its that important to clone somone elses work. Although this page is for poeple to learn from past designs not pirate current designs like 2 rock.
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boldaslove6789
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by boldaslove6789 »

Apparently the key thing that gives the SSS that SRV sound is the 12BH7 driver tubes. Two 12bh7 are used in the 150w version for cathode drivers.

SRV's famous silver face (King Tone ConSoul) Steel String Singer has the power section similar to the one from the "White Glove" 150w (4x6550's) Dumbleland Special that was used on the Texas Flood album. So essentially SRV's amp is a Dumbleland Special Bass amp with reverb,inductor Filters, and the preamp is voiced for guitar instead of Bass.

The first few SSS's all had inductor filter's and used 100w twin Iron though,SRV's was probably one of the first to be 150w. All SSS after SRV's were most likely all 150w.

It is also said that the newer blackface SSS SRV had in the late 80's was just a loaned amp till he got his new bf 150w SSS. Dumble and him had a fight because of some phone charges Dumble had asked for and SRV refused to pay. This fight cost SRV his new amp which some how made its hands into Kirk Hammet of Metallica (why or how no one knows) whom still owns it to this day.

The blackface SSS that SRV had on load can be seen @ the Austin City Limits show in 1989'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kpkSRtcrR0

SRV can be seen with multiple Dumble amps throughout the decade of 1980-1990 including Tommy Shannon's (300w) Winterland Bass amp used in his rig in the late 80's, a Dumble ODS, and there are probably others.
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M Fowler
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by M Fowler »

A guy posted this schematic a few years back.

Not 100 or 150 watter but good platform.
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David Root
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by David Root »

Boldaslove6789 quote:

"Apparently the key thing that gives the SSS that SRV sound is the 12BH7 driver tubes. Two 12BH7 are used in the 150w version for cathode drivers."

Could you elaborate on the reasoning behind your statement?

2x12BH7 is the classic SVT 300W model. I would think that 1x12BH7 would be enough for a 150W amp, but I know that drivers don't always work like that, especially in a bass power end.

I have seen one set of pix that seems to indicate 2x12BH7 in a 4x6550 SSS, the tube shields were the right length. Current is the key. One 12AX7 driver was used in the 100W SS, S/Ns 001-004 I think. Andy Fuch's clean machine uses a 6FQ7 driver, which is midway between a 12AX7 and 12BH7 in current draw, more or less, given the 350Vp or so they seem to run at.
Roe
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by Roe »

M Fowler wrote:A guy posted this schematic a few years back.

Not 100 or 150 watter but good platform.
thanks for the schem but it doesn't have the hi and low filters after the tone stack like a SSS does
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boldaslove6789
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by boldaslove6789 »

David Root wrote:Boldaslove6789 quote:

"Apparently the key thing that gives the SSS that SRV sound is the 12BH7 driver tubes. Two 12BH7 are used in the 150w version for cathode drivers."

Could you elaborate on the reasoning behind your statement?

2x12BH7 is the classic SVT 300W model. I would think that 1x12BH7 would be enough for a 150W amp, but I know that drivers don't always work like that, especially in a bass power end.

I have seen one set of pix that seems to indicate 2x12BH7 in a 4x6550 SSS, the tube shields were the right length. Current is the key. One 12AX7 driver was used in the 100W SS, S/Ns 001-004 I think. Andy Fuch's clean machine uses a 6FQ7 driver, which is midway between a 12AX7 and 12BH7 in current draw, more or less, given the 350Vp or so they seem to run at.
David,

After talking with multiple people that have dissected and either cloned or made there own incarnations of the SSS the general consensus is that the cathode driver(s) are crucial to "that sound" in particular. Whether or not 1 or 2 is used most likely reflects on the wattage of the power section, or that HAD was just working out the bugs or discovering different tweaking methods for the SSS.

SRV's KTC SSS was very unique sounding in that it captured a very complex guitar tone that SRV's picking dynamics dished out.

I always perceived SRV's SSS tone as multiple harmonic layer's, not just 1 dimensional guitar tone. I think this is the reasoning for Dumble making 4x6550's standard after the first few prototypes.
supermagoo
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by supermagoo »

I am so obsessed with the designs of Mr. Dumble and the sound of steve ray vaughan.
would be nice to make a new thread to specifically discuss steve amplifier (king consul tone?).
ahh. I have read that 12bh7 has the same transfer curves 2 12AU7 in parallel.
(sorry for spelling errors I am using a Traslator automatic)

Greetings!
mobisimo
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Re: Steel String Singer Layout?

Post by mobisimo »

Some gut shots of the sterling made their way on here a while back--from ebay if i'm not mistaken--and it's tough to tell what's going on with the filters. Folks have said to consult chap 5 of Radiotron v4. If anything that info could be transformed into a proper approximation.
One thing I wasn't convinced about from the pics was the driver section. Rumor a while ago was that at least one two rock builder wasn't a fan of cathode followers. And from the sterling pics and shots of the john mayer amp, I thought those preamps resembled the ODR #13 schematic in the files section. The preamp tube on the far right (looking inside the chassis) seems for sure to belong to the LTP pi, which begs the question: why physically separate the LTP and the driver section? I also don't see evidence of the added driver circuitry. I just read a post however that the first SSS didn't have that driver stage (please forgive me for forgetting who the author of that post is).
I can repost those sterling shots and those from the mayer amp if anyone wants and if nobody objects.
One element of the SSS architecture that hasn't gotten a lot of airtime is the power supply. The mayer pics clearly reveal the standard ods 2k2/22k/2k2 dropping string but I wonder if a more twin-like power supply would help with the clean sound. One of Henry's delta blues conversions used a 1k5/6k/10k string.
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