I thought I had this figured out...

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dorrisant
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by dorrisant »

Littlewyan wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:10 am 1. Are you testing this circuit with the standby switch on?
Of course!
2. What's the purpose of R3 and D1?
I'd have to dig out Merlin's book for that one.

3. Do you actually mean -1VDC at output?
Yes.

4. Is that solder built up on the negative end of C1? What measurement do you get if you measure resistance to ground from that point?
It is solder, but nothing built up or out of the ordinary. I'll check that measurement and post it.
Last edited by dorrisant on Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Littlewyan
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Littlewyan »

Sounds like something is shorted if you're getting zero ohms at that point. That would explain your readings.
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Littlewyan
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Littlewyan »

Just saw your edited your post. Just to be clear, I mean this point.

Edit: What is the solder there for?
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martin manning
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by martin manning »

Is C1 shorted?

BTW, that parallel 100k resistor/diode Merlin shows to slow the discharge of the last cap doesn't buy much time. In one time constant, about 1 second, the cap loses 63% of its voltage. I'd make the resistor 470k at least.
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dorrisant
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by dorrisant »

Martin:
Will do on the 470k... but, I've used it with zero problems at 100k. I understand your reasoning though.

Littlewyan:
Sorry about the switch-a-roo... hadn't had my coffee yet. Btw, you're up awful early... and I mean AWFUL! :D

From that point to ground is about 68k after the cap settles.
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Littlewyan
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Littlewyan »

It's 3:30 in the afternoon here! I think you're up awfully late :P

If you're getting extremely low voltage after that diode and all resistors measure correctly then I think there's a few possibilities here.

1. Faulty diode
2. C1 is faulty
3. Grounding issue

Test the diodes first and confirm your grounding is correct. Can we also see some gut shots of this amp please?
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dorrisant
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by dorrisant »

Yes... I had my time zones backwards. I'm a dumbass sometimes.

I will post some gutshots today if I can... Hope it's not too late for you. :wink:
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by sluckey »

When circuits go weird I like to divide and conquer. I would break the circuit at the red X and add a 100K to the cap just for a load. Then operate with just the circuit in the blue oval. Do you have voltage at the diode anode now?
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Deric
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Deric »

dorrisant wrote: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:48 am
And, there is NO SCHEMATIC TO BE FOUND, change my mind. :wink:

I should have never accepted this amp. No more cheap PCB amps!
I worked on one of these that had burned all 4 of the output tube cathode resistors and the PCB. What a pain in the ass...

The stock bias supply voltage is -28vdc using a combination of fixed/cathode bias.

Anyway, here's the schematic for the output section. Hope it helps.
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Deric
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Deric »

And the rest of the schematic...

8)
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dorrisant
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by dorrisant »

Sorry it's been a minute, life gets in the way.

Thanks for proving me wrong, Deric! I'll look those schematics over and see what's up.
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dorrisant
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by dorrisant »

Holy cow!! What is going on with the Fixed/Cathode bias here?

Can someone explain the bias point that this amp should be set to?

How is it calculated?

Maybe that's why the bias reading (thinking fixed bias A/B) was way too high. Maybe the idle would be set higher with the Fixed/Cathode bias setup in this amp. Maybe I can just take my bias board out and let it eat as is. I mean, that is how it was, stock.

I am puzzled by this one.
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Littlewyan
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Littlewyan »

Measure the voltage on the cathode, divide by the resistance (R98 or R98 and R9 in parallel) and then divide by 2. That should give you the current (obviously not accounting for the fact that the valves could be mismatched).
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Littlewyan
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by Littlewyan »

It's a kind of hybrid fixed/cathode bias setup. I'm not sure of the benefits of this, but I think Merlin might mention it on his website.

Edit: Just checked, it's not. But I did a quick Google, apparently people use these setups to get the best of both worlds......I can't imagine what a mixed cathode and fixed bias amp would sound like....
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martin manning
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Re: I thought I had this figured out...

Post by martin manning »

Yes, mixed bias. The fixed bias voltage is the 28V, the switched cathode resistor network is how the different tube types are accommodated. Seems like a clever way to do that. You should calculate plate dissipation in the usual way, just use the correct Va-k.

My Marshall 4001 (Studio 15) has mixed bias, and there may be others.
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