A baritone guitar amplification system thats a bit different

[pjd3]

OK dreamers, I'd love to hear your input on this one - and a warning, I'm doing this and not budging an inch until its finished. Its just too, too enticing to be talked out of.

So, being about 1/5 of the way done with my electric baritone guitar (28.625" scale) I've begun to think about how I'd like this presented regarding its amplification system and I have an idea that is simply screaming for me to do.

Since this baritone guitar will primarily (or strictly) be used for finger-style, and I truly mean acoustic guitar type finger-style in the vein of Hedges, Bensusan, Stephen Wake, etc. I have zero intentions of strumming or even using a pick, or any kind of distortion - big, clean, sweet, dynamic and bold.

What I see for this is to use two 2 x 12" speaker cabs. A twin reverb amp that feeds one of the 12" speakers in each cab. Then, implement a "speaker-to-line level" circuit that taps off the output transformer secondary, converts to a line level signal that feeds a nice Lexicon or Kurzweil reverb processor, into a Crown or QSC 2 channel power amp and finally out in L & R stereo to the remaining 12" speaker in each cabinet.

In my mind's ear, I picture that config as capturing a few big desirable elements all in one big, loud, wide, opulent shot.
1. It puts the raw sound of the guitar into a Twin reverb directly to the chosen guitar speaker pair, spread out in two cabinets
2. It captures the tone of the full circuit of the Twin reverb and gives that to the input of the reverb/ambient processor
3. you have full control and flexibility the raw guitar to ambient mix plus real-time choice of effects at your fingertips.
4. Both the raw guitar/amp tone and the effects are combined in the same resonating speaker cabinet for maybe, some level of complex and natural blending of raw and effected sound.
5. The effects are in full stereo and you can adapt the location of the speaker cabs to the stage/venue size for the best sound.
6. You aren't relying on the sound guy to present your sound for you, you take full control of your guitars ambient elements and mix/blending.
7. You have created a sensational and inspiring monitor system that created a wonderful sonic experience for you and those on stage with you, and simply mic the speaker cabinets and pan them out the PA system left and right.

So thats my story, and I'm feeling very, very compelled to stick to it as long as there are not any inherent issues that I haven't considered. I'm precariously assuming that there will not be any feedback issues since there are no local microphones and everything is kept at line level signal. I don't care if its alot of equipment. It would be worth what ever weight or set up time it would take.

Whats ya think?
I have my opinions!
thanks everyone,
Best, Phil Donovan

[pjd3]

An after thought, or after request.

Of course some experimenting is in order here but, say I was to use an eminence Swamp Thang as the speaker pair coming directly from the Twins output transformer. What would your instincts tell about what speaker to use for the speaker-to-line level converted FX's speaker?

I'm wondering if it would/should be more of a PA fuller range speaker or, a speaker that is a well known good match for a Swamp Thang but also will render the FX with a decent amount of accuracy.

thanks,
Phil Donovan

[TUBEDUDE]

I've used Weber California's to good effect in Twins.

[DimenBrun]

If that is Webers take on the old JBL’s with the aluminum dust cap, then I agree. That should work well for a clean twin kind of sound. Never cared for those pushed into distortion, but for clean........

[TUBEDUDE]

Yes, it's a JBL clone. Available with metal or H dome. Perfect as the O.P. desires zero distortion.

[norburybrook]

you're describing the traditional wet/dry set up.

I use such a setup sometimes which is why I put a line out on most of my amps. I take the line out into a volume pedal then into the reverb etc full wet then send that to a stero power amp into 2x12 inch speakers. You control the wet level with the volume pedal


This works well for amps that OD as yo don't compromise the amp tone on the dry side.
For totally clean you may as well just do traditional stereo IMHO


M

[Reeltarded]

I have direct exerience with almost exactly the setup for a guy doing a similar thing as you.

First, go look in Dumble discussion. https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=34715

See that preamp.. you need a two tube similar thing. A twin for you is lost potential. This sort of thing into a direct box driving a rack mixer at mic level is right in your rig.. you will have uhh.. a PCM thing (and please don't buy Kurzweil things). The local negative feedback will be a TREMENDOUS win for your ears. The flat extension will be joy everytime your fingers touch the strings. It weighs about 90lbs less than a twin.. so now we can add 40lbs to your rack and still beat the weight watcher's challenge! Hmm I would insert an 1176 if I din't has an LA2A. Mixer, effects, and power all fit in the same actually portable rack. You might want to look at Class-D new power that isn't QSC for many reasons. You can get 2000 actual watts for about $500 and it weighs 6lbs. It's great. I am not going to shill for brands, but I am going to do a takedown on ones I find incredibly terrible. Current QSC has quality issues. It's hard to RMA to them because the support line is busy booking RMAs.

Just a similar preamp into a power amp will flatten any Twin. The tone controls alone are another league.

EVs. Use EVs. They reissued 12L. Use those. You need tight and flat with lots of low extension. Thiele cabinets. Don't neglect this. Look up the Claire Bros 2-12 version. These weigh as much as a twin, but we don't have a Twin anymore.. so make two trips and pretend we still lost weight.

You can do it with two single 12 TLs too. EVs. Get the EVs. Congrats. You just lost another 100lbs!!! This rig could carry itself!

This ^^^^ thing will work in any venue including a 35000 seat arena. You can hook it up at home. It's smaller than a couch and you can play at AM radio volume that sounds just like it did last week at the Popeye's Chicken Arena.

There will be no magic with wet/dry and one side will be not a Twin and it's hard to cart and then you have to talk down to sound techs and then they call you a prissy bitch because they are sound children, and children are petulant morons.

Ever hear Richard Leo Johnson playing baritone electro-acoustic harp guitar in a modal G1 tuning while also playing a Peavey Wolfgang with his feet? Yep. I did all that!

Seriously get down in the Dumble section and start listening to some clips to see what is possible.

You might even lose 200lbs! Congrats!!

[pjd3]

Thank you for this generous show of optional possibilities for this project.

You've definitely peaked my interest. My ideas are merely based on notions, not on real world tried an successful outcomes so, I'm going to look at this, and hear on this.

Thanks again,
Phil D. - still working on the baritone guitar, making some headway, slow, but progressing.

[xtian]

+1 for the Neodymium version of the EVM12L. Excellent speaker.