Japanese Counterfeit/Bootleg Fender Dual Showman

[Junkin8ez]

There is also 4 wires off the tranny that are not hook to anything. bizarre.
Thanks

[Baxtercat]

Late '60s early '70s we saw lots of these in Long Beach, CA...coming back w/ servicemen I suppose. Also 'Strat's with brass frets.

[73GTV]

Nothing on the back plate. There is a switch for 110V or 220V.The fender name plate is is a pressed aluminum. All electronic components are made in Japan.

Not an Elk for sure! This is how most ELK circuits were assembled!

[IMG:640:480]http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn279/73GTV/ELK/CopyofMVC-003S_zps27b228d7.jpg[/img]

[Richie]

Sorry for any confusion, I mentioned Elk amps, I didn't mean the amp was an Elk.
Still looks like you got a good deal for the price, no matter what it is.

[renshen1957]

It is not and Elk, The Elk eventually became Fender, Japan." No Export Only" meaning for local use only. Check the voltage listed for that amp and if it states 220 Volts VAC, possibly. Also a Gut shot would prove if its and Elk or Not.

Hi

I doubt it's a Fender for the Japanese only market based on the Voltage. The flat logo is a give away, too. When the Japanese copy something for the home market, they usually do a better job of cloning to almost pass as an original. At least it was that way for the lawsuit guitars.

The vintage Japanese tube guitar amps for the domestic market, I have come across in Magazine articles, are smaller to nano size. My Brother in Laws Console Stereo from Japan was likewise scaled down compared to American consoles.

Japan has been 100 Volts AC for quite some time, Eastern Japan at 50 Hz frequency and Western Japan at 60 Hz.

Of course, nothing to stop building to 100 Volts and putting 110V on the power switch. 110 Volts appliances would work on Japan's 100 volts.

Japan (at least when my late sister lived there during 1968 into the 1970's) didn't have 200 Volts or 220 volts. Another thing they didn't have was three prong outlets. (If going to Japan, bring them along, Amazon won't ship to a FPO address).

The US military bases in Okinawa were 110V back in the day before the upward creep of mains voltages. US military bases now are 120V. I don't know about the Naval bases in Japan, I am told second hand that it's 110V.

I would vote for Japanese knock off marketed to US service men. Japan was once well known for its fakes before China acquired their present reputation. If all the parts say made in Japan, very good chance of this being the case.

Best regards,

Steve

[73GTV]

It is not and Elk, The Elk eventually became Fender, Japan." No Export Only" meaning for local use only. Check the voltage listed for that amp and if it states 220 Volts VAC, possibly. Also a Gut shot would prove if its and Elk or Not.

Hi

I doubt it's a Fender for the Japanese only market based on the Voltage. The flat logo is a give away, too. When the Japanese copy something for the home market, they usually do a better job of cloning to almost pass as an original. At least it was that way for the lawsuit guitars.

The vintage Japanese tube guitar amps for the domestic market, I have come across in Magazine articles, are smaller to nano size. My Brother in Laws Console Stereo from Japan was likewise scaled down compared to American consoles.

Japan has been 100 Volts AC for quite some time, Eastern Japan at 50 Hz frequency and Western Japan at 60 Hz.

Of course, nothing to stop building to 100 Volts and putting 110V on the power switch. 110 Volts appliances would work on Japan's 100 volts.

Japan (at least when my late sister lived there during 1968 into the 1970's) didn't have 200 Volts or 220 volts. Another thing they didn't have was three prong outlets. (If going to Japan, bring them along, Amazon won't ship to a FPO address).

The US military bases in Okinawa were 110V back in the day before the upward creep of mains voltages. US military bases now are 120V. I don't know about the Naval bases in Japan, I am told second hand that it's 110V.

I would vote for Japanese knock off marketed to US service men. Japan was once well known for its fakes before China acquired their present reputation. If all the parts say made in Japan, very good chance of this being the case.

Best regards,

Steve

Just got back from Hong Kong in July, that market uses 220 VAC, sorry about the mistake on the voltage earlier. (Having spending ten years in Japan). I can think of Taiwan for export to Europe which also has 200 or 220 as average voltages. The components used however are japanese capacitors. Who knows! I wanted to make it clear that it was not an ELK.

[73GTV]

181215866807 eBay item number:
You want to see a fake Fender Amp. look up this EBay listing.

Edit: Its Fenler

[Junkin8ez]

Wow!!! Now that is cheesy! Thanks! I wish he put shots of the guts in there to compare to mine.The chassis it self looks like the same type & the back plate is the same.

[renshen1957]

181215866807 eBay item number:
You want to see a fake Fender Amp. look up this EBay listing.

Edit: Its Fenler

Hi,

At first look, it has that Rissi Fender designed Solid State Fender Vibe copied from the late 1960's Fender ads. I believe it looks bit better with the different knobs. And it has tubes! Most likely sounds 100% better when dimed than the old CBS SS Fender, unless you're into super clean amps.

http://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/adDetails/182

If you watch the movie Let It Be or the video of the Beatles Rooftop concert, you'll see a 100-watt Fender Solid State Series PA system from that series used for the vocals.

Best regards,

Steve

[BIG Dave]

Do you remember which Guitar Mag?

I remember that article. Must be Vintage Guitar. That's the only mag I subscribe to!

[Structo]

I think the world engineers should have all gotten together over a couple pints and discussed what specifications power generating plants should operate at.

Voltage
Current
Frequency
Done!

They could have gone with Thomas Edison and transmitted DC....

Strange to have the frequency of the power different at one end of the main island (Japan) differ from the other.
You would think with the technical know how the Japanese have, they would have thought about that one.

50Hz here? and 60Hz current there?

Do transformers have to be designed specially for 50Hz vs 60Hz?

Maybe the frequency is chosen due to electro-mechanical resonances of rotating generators like we have at the dams.

I also wonder about how voltage is decided on and if there is a greater cases of electrocution in countries with the higher 220-230 VAC.

Higher voltage pressure on insulation and clothing.

Or does the circuit breaker on the power lead prevent prevents that?

And phase of the power is different in places, even here for factories using large electric motors. (three phase?)

Things to ponder while idle from amp building.

[Firestorm]

Tesla proved the efficiency of AC transmission; you can step it up to minimize losses. The frequency differences just happened and apparently, nobody cared.

[renshen1957]

I think the world engineers should have all gotten together over a couple pints and discussed what specifications power generating plants should operate at.

Voltage
Current
Frequency
Done!

They could have gone with Thomas Edison and transmitted DC....

Strange to have the frequency of the power different at one end of the main island (Japan) differ from the other.
You would think with the technical know how the Japanese have, they would have thought about that one.

50Hz here? and 60Hz current there?

Do transformers have to be designed specially for 50Hz vs 60Hz?

Maybe the frequency is chosen due to electro-mechanical resonances of rotating generators like we have at the dams.

I also wonder about how voltage is decided on and if there is a greater cases of electrocution in countries with the higher 220-230 VAC.

Higher voltage pressure on insulation and clothing.

Or does the circuit breaker on the power lead prevent prevents that?

And phase of the power is different in places, even here for factories using large electric motors. (three phase?)

Things to ponder while idle from amp building.

Hi,

The US went with 110V AC and 60 Hz (60 cycles per second). Transmission wires were larger but copper was an abundant mineral and in the US, Westinghouse and other suppliers had interests in power supply and in the supply of copper cable. The higher the current, the higher the sales of thick expensive copper wire.

Europe went with 220V AC and 50 Hz (Europe, specifically the UK, just had to be different) transmission wires could be smaller (less expensive), as that reduced the total current going through the supply lines (reducing losses).

It's the old A 12ax7 tube uses 300 mA of current at 6.3 volts or 150 mA at 12.6 volts.

The UK firms used 16 ohm cabs for a similar reason, the speaker cables could be smaller gauges of copper wire.

Best regards,

Steve

[Bill Moore]

I was under the impression that the UK voltage was 220 phase to neutral vs the US which normal house wiring has 2 110 phase to neutral circuits, and 220 phase to phase.
I suspect the transmission lines are similar to the US, with 69K to 345K being the norm, and distribution voltages in the 12.5KV to 25KV range.
On another fourm, a member from argentina said that they have 3 phase availlable, even at private housing, which is great for running motors, (cheaper). Something like a heat pump would be almost as cheap to operate as heating with gas!