Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

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teemuk
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Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by teemuk »

Not all, but parts relevant to the topic.

[img:1217:600]http://oi58.tinypic.com/e0lrgn.jpg[/img]
http://oi58.tinypic.com/e0lrgn.jpg

Waveform at upper left represents the input signal. It is a 1 kHz sinusoidal wave, which gets muted at the middle of plotting. Waveform at the middle output signal. Output signal is evidently clipped, but not with a "fixed" threshold.

Schematic on the right illustrates the process: There are two inputs, which would be driven by a phase inverter stage of some kind. After the gain stage a half wave of the signal is clipped by a diode, in push-pull these are naturally opposing waves. A differential amp (which could as well be a transformer) combines these two signals. The "clean" wave corrects its opposing "clipped" wave and asymmetric hard clipping with dominant even order harmonics converts into softer symmetric clipping with dominant odd order harmonics (and less high order).

Instead of using a "fixed" reference for the diodes, like ground or a DC source, I use a low impedance amplifier to generate a dynamically modulated reference voltage.

Following stage is just a phase inverter to extract inverted signal for the active full wave rectifier. It rectifies the output signal and filters it. The filtered signal is an envelope that corresponds to average of the output signal (more or less). This brings us to waveforms at bottom left....

Blue is this envelope. It ramps up when the sinusoidal input signal appears. It starts to decay when input signal is muted. (This is actually one drawback of the portrayed scheme; with real power supplies recovery from sag is practically instantenious with the first "pulse" from the rectifier.)
Green signal is a "DC" reference (sort of), with which another differential amp compares the envelope signal. This signal could be well filtered DC, in this case there's simply a poorly filtered half wave rectifier tapped into same line.
Red is the output signal. It is basically the difference between the "DC" component and the envelope component inverted. The clipping diodes will clip at this voltage plus their forward voltage.
Firestorm
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Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by Firestorm »

Roe wrote:
Firestorm wrote:
rp wrote:There were dual recto Marshall SLs?? Got a pict anyone?
I was under the impression those never made it past prototype. If they exist they'd be crazy rare.
there are plenty of dual rectifier mid 1967 100w marshalls around,

cf. http://folk.ntnu.no/roef/JTM100
http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marsha ... es/14.html

http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marsha ... 32993.html[/url]
Silly me. I read dual rectifier and thought of tubes. Those, I'm pretty sure, ended as prototypes.
Firestorm
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Location: Connecticut

Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by Firestorm »

Roe wrote:
Firestorm wrote:
rp wrote:There were dual recto Marshall SLs?? Got a pict anyone?
I was under the impression those never made it past prototype. If they exist they'd be crazy rare.
there are plenty of dual rectifier mid 1967 100w marshalls around,

cf. http://folk.ntnu.no/roef/JTM100
http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marsha ... es/14.html

http://www.amparchives.com/album/Marsha ... 32993.html[/url]
Silly me. I read dual rectifier and thought of tubes. Those, I'm pretty sure, ended as prototypes.
Firestorm
Posts: 3033
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:34 pm
Location: Connecticut

Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by Firestorm »

Oh look, a dual rectifier dual post. :oops:
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trobbins
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Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by trobbins »

The Bassman 5f6A has output stage feedback to the PI cathodes. The ripple modulation would likely enter predominantly via the OT CT, and the screens, which would be within the feedback loop.

Teemuk, would your ripple signal entry path be prior to any power stage kerfuffle?
EtherealWidow
Posts: 333
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by EtherealWidow »

Ha. Very funny.

A SE amp with plenty of ripple but no sag isn't always very exciting,

but a Bassman with plenty of sag and no ripple is no good either.

One more reason that hifi guys hate guitar amps. "Poorly designed" power supplies sound great.
fusionbear
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Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by fusionbear »

Learning to learn...
Roe
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Re: Is PS Ripple Integral to an Amp's Tone?

Post by Roe »

Firestorm wrote: Silly me. I read dual rectifier and thought of tubes. Those, I'm pretty sure, ended as prototypes.
they were standard production amps in mid 1967. but all the early marshall 100w amps can be considered prototypes until ca 1969. its just that marshall sold a lot of prototypes
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