Does the RoHS stuff mean small amp makers will be raising prices? Will
we kit makers/hobbyists be dragged out of our homes for using the "wrong" solder? I just read that Aiken amps is redoing his whole line
to be RoHS compliant. Is this the law now for all amp makers?
RoHS compliance
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: RoHS compliance
IMO, it's not that big of a deal. For some, the old 60/40 solder will disappear. They will complain that the new stuff doesn't wet as nicely and is more difficult to remove. It is old dawgs not willing to learn new tricks that are forced upon them. You don't have to like it, but it's comming anyway.
I've been using 4% silver solder (Sears, Radio Shack) for a couple of years, and, as far as I can tell, it works just fine. Yes, it is a bit higher temperature compared to the old 60/40 and not quite as easy to work with. But it isn't something to jump up and down about and pout about. Besides, it keeps the vampires away.
The rest of the parts? Probably adds pennies to an amp.
I've been using 4% silver solder (Sears, Radio Shack) for a couple of years, and, as far as I can tell, it works just fine. Yes, it is a bit higher temperature compared to the old 60/40 and not quite as easy to work with. But it isn't something to jump up and down about and pout about. Besides, it keeps the vampires away.
The rest of the parts? Probably adds pennies to an amp.
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Andy Le Blanc
- Posts: 2582
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:16 am
- Location: central Maine
Re: RoHS compliance
Besides solder and iron its documentation and proof that your BOM is compliant.
The solder station becomes more of an investment, but if you say your ROHS
compliant you also have to demonstrate that you are, fine for a larger office,
But the one man show is gonna have to put more effort into maintaining
the compliance, or exemption, than one might like.
The solder station becomes more of an investment, but if you say your ROHS
compliant you also have to demonstrate that you are, fine for a larger office,
But the one man show is gonna have to put more effort into maintaining
the compliance, or exemption, than one might like.
lazymaryamps
Re: RoHS compliance
ROHS is more of a problem for the amp guys who choose to use non clomplient parts. The good news is you can sometimes catch some good deals for mouser, allied, and others when they sell off non complient parts to be replaced with ROHS standard parts.
Not to worry ROHS is not a law but a complience that is more for consumer electronics. Most electronics items being made today are made not to be fixed but thrown out and replaced and ROHS is an attempt to control items like lead and other toxic items from filling landfills.
Non ROHS will still be available but will have to be special ordered from the manufacture. One example that I can give is the millitary applications is not going to use lead free solder due to problems ROHS may cause in reliablity due to soldering whiskers that accure due to the lack of lead in a solder connection.
Now if you are in the amp business and you want to mass market your amp where it falls more into consumer electronics you might have an issue.
I could go into a whole debait about ROHS parts and standards but my personal results some of the ROHS stuff does non does not sound the same and is reliable as non complient parts.
Not to worry ROHS is not a law but a complience that is more for consumer electronics. Most electronics items being made today are made not to be fixed but thrown out and replaced and ROHS is an attempt to control items like lead and other toxic items from filling landfills.
Non ROHS will still be available but will have to be special ordered from the manufacture. One example that I can give is the millitary applications is not going to use lead free solder due to problems ROHS may cause in reliablity due to soldering whiskers that accure due to the lack of lead in a solder connection.
Now if you are in the amp business and you want to mass market your amp where it falls more into consumer electronics you might have an issue.
I could go into a whole debait about ROHS parts and standards but my personal results some of the ROHS stuff does non does not sound the same and is reliable as non complient parts.
Re: RoHS compliance
Could you clarify your last statement please?ckpop wrote: I could go into a whole debait about ROHS parts and standards but my personal results some of the ROHS stuff does non does not sound the same and is reliable as non complient parts.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
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Cliff Schecht
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Re: RoHS compliance
RoHS is really only necessary if you plan on shipping to the EU. I don't think any other country actually enforces RoHS, but many do have benefits to being compliant (in the US, we get tax breaks).
People talk crap about tin solders all of the time it seems. I'm not a huge fan of the stuff myself for my personal projects but we are now on the 4th or 5th generation of tin solders and all of the old reliability and whisker problems have been eliminated. Special additives (I know bismuth is one) have not only killed the whisker problem but also lowers the melting point to make the stuff easier to work with on the bench. I still won't make the switch until lead becomes unavailable though, I hate the dull looking joints that tin solders produces.
People talk crap about tin solders all of the time it seems. I'm not a huge fan of the stuff myself for my personal projects but we are now on the 4th or 5th generation of tin solders and all of the old reliability and whisker problems have been eliminated. Special additives (I know bismuth is one) have not only killed the whisker problem but also lowers the melting point to make the stuff easier to work with on the bench. I still won't make the switch until lead becomes unavailable though, I hate the dull looking joints that tin solders produces.
Cliff Schecht - Circuit P.I.
Re: RoHS compliance
Sorry, Let me clairify.
I have done alot of blind AB test with complient and non complient parts, Some you can hear the difference and some you can't.
It all has to do with how the part is manufactured. For example there has been several times the manufacture has changed thier recipes whether it was ROHS complient or a cheaper way to make and the part does not sound the same.
There was a reason why lead was used and other chemicals when a part was made. Due to the ROHS compliance many manufactures have to acommidate and adjust to the cheap electronics market to sell large quanitys of parts. There is a point when it's more about the large sale of parts then the overall reliability of the part.
ROHS is no different then a company changing it's recipe for certain part.
Why don't xicon carbon comps sound like AB resistors and stackpole sound different then the AB's ?
Thats the point I was trying to make
I have done alot of blind AB test with complient and non complient parts, Some you can hear the difference and some you can't.
It all has to do with how the part is manufactured. For example there has been several times the manufacture has changed thier recipes whether it was ROHS complient or a cheaper way to make and the part does not sound the same.
There was a reason why lead was used and other chemicals when a part was made. Due to the ROHS compliance many manufactures have to acommidate and adjust to the cheap electronics market to sell large quanitys of parts. There is a point when it's more about the large sale of parts then the overall reliability of the part.
ROHS is no different then a company changing it's recipe for certain part.
Why don't xicon carbon comps sound like AB resistors and stackpole sound different then the AB's ?
Thats the point I was trying to make
Re: RoHS compliance
If I have a hand built amp that is not Rhos compliant, can I send it to a EU country?
Re: RoHS compliance
Good question Jana.
I was wondering something along those lines myself.
As in, do they have a grandfather clause that allows equipment built before the new ROHS standard to be used or imported.
I was wondering something along those lines myself.
As in, do they have a grandfather clause that allows equipment built before the new ROHS standard to be used or imported.
Tom
Don't let that smoke out!
Don't let that smoke out!
Re: RoHS compliance
I *think* there is a grandfather clause. I was wondering more from a perspective of a recently built amp. I am not in the business of commercially building amps nor do I even advertise to build custom amps. But, what if I build an amp for a friend who lives in Germany and want to send it there?
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VacuumVoodoo
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Re: RoHS compliance
Short answer is NO.Jana wrote: But, what if I build an amp for a friend who lives in Germany and want to send it there?
ROHS directive has been amended last November, it is now part of CE certification/declaration. Hobby DIY is a grey area. You can build anything for your own use in EU but as soon as you sell, rent out or give it away it must carry CE mark to show compliance with safety norms and ROHS. There are still low under the radar flyers but it can be very costly in the end.
Please don't post how to circumvent EU regulations, it's not worth trying. We (i.e. europeans) tried to get exemption for professional tube based audio and MI equipment, it got torpedoed.
Aleksander Niemand
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Life's a party but you get invited only once...
affiliation:TUBEWONDER AMPS
Zagray!-review
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Life's a party but you get invited only once...
affiliation:TUBEWONDER AMPS
Zagray!-review
Re: RoHS compliance
okay, thanks. that's what I thought but wasn't sure.
Re: RoHS compliance
Yeah like if you have a German grandfather who needs tube amps for military purposes?Jana wrote:I *think* there is a grandfather clause. I was wondering more from a perspective of a recently built amp. I am not in the business of commercially building amps nor do I even advertise to build custom amps. But, what if I build an amp for a friend who lives in Germany and want to send it there?
I have old M8 from my former band-playing glory days who I'd happily build a tube amp for for a laugh, but he spends most of his time between Berlin and London - a pity.
IMHO, RoHS lead-free is such a pitiful attempt to clean up landfills etc when you consider all the other toxic nasties that end up in there from electronics garbage (let alone from other stuff). And its not even as if there's bazillions of peeps chucking their old tube amps in the dump. Scorn on RoHS I say! - bureaucracy gone crackers! And that lead free solder is as brittle as anything.